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[UG] Germany Wants To Ban Internal Combustion Engine Cars By 2030 - Page 10

post #91 of 223
I love how idealists don't think of the repercussions of their proposals. Without ICE you would not be able to sustain the current population of the earth. The battery tech just is not there yet.
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post #92 of 223
Well, whatever works for Germany. With Toyota/Hyundai's gas compression engine and Koenigsegg's camless technology in late prototype stage, with their vastly improved efficiency and power, I just don't see how electrics are going to catch on anytime soon. Combining those two techs into a single engine could result in some very powerful and very efficient 4 and 6 bangers, especially if people learn how to drive cars with DCTs.
post #93 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by looniam View Post

ah no.

canada (#3) and venezuela (#1) are far ahead of the U.S. (#10) let alone middle eastern countries.

http://www.cnbc.com/2016/07/05/us-oil-reserves-surpass-those-of-saudi-arabia-and-russia.html

The bottom falling out of shale had to do with Saudi Arabia sabotaging the market, but that bit them on the butt and they had to pull back on that position. Net import/export balances have nothing to do with proven reserves and production capacity, anyway.
post #94 of 223
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by azanimefan View Post

That's actually an easy goal for Germany, they get like 95% of their electricity from Nuclear energy, which makes hydrogen cheap and plentiful, and electric cars environmentally safe. Furthermore there is little urban sprawl there.

That idea wouldn't work in the USA. Too much of our electricity comes from Coal (70%) which is actually dirtier then gas burning cars, and we drive too far too much to make electric or hydrogen convenient.

Gas is still gas. Electricity can be made 100s of different ways. thumb.gif
Right now =/= Future.




We could try to come up with a solution to the issue, rather than complaining that "its too had"
rolleyes.gif
post #95 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by EniGma1987 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Say goodbye to Germany's shipping and logistics segment of their economy, both of which currently utilize standard internal combustion engines and hydrogen internal combustion engines.

Oh, and attempting to force the usage of purely electric vehicles would require massive amounts of electricity, as does 24/7 sustained operation of their charging stations. This would require more high yield power plants (read: coal and/or nuclear) which would affect the environment.

Pass the popcorn please!

As the article points out, hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are allowed. read first?
Doing this by 2030 also gives the country enough time to prepare by building some extra power planets. And with ITER coming online soon, we may be somewhat close to the beginning of the fusion power era, which will mean any electricity needs are easily taken care of.
I also doubt this applies at all to ships, airplanes, and semi truck vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tjj226 Angel View Post

I really have mixed feelings about this.

While I agree that I feel like the free market should dictate what we drive, I also know that companies are very slow to evolve because it cuts into profit margins.

I don't think we should continue to use gasoline engines if electric engines provide feature parody.

I also have a feeling that a majority of gasoline cars will be grandfathered in.



These slips of the mind are delicious.



Anyway, I've got my doubts. Fossil fuels have some known noteworthy advantages that are very hard to replace in practical terms: they were / are made naturally with the passage of time, that part of the job is done for us; they have good energy density, and when talking about liquid ones, storing and transporting that energy is very easy. In practical terms it also has a good balance in terms of benefits / risks when used in a mass market product such as a car. And when it comes to electric vehicles, batteries rely on rare metals whose extraction is not exactly environment friendly, making them isn't either and there are also doubts about how much lithium we have to make batteries with a decent capacity to replace all IC engine powered cars and trucks; meanwhile fuel cells may not be as safe as a simple petrol tank in a car, not to mention that making that fuel requires energy. We already had electric cars in the beginning of the 20th century and then production was essentially halted because of economics and practicality.

Maybe when climate change starts to engulf important parts of some countries' coastline, maybe then something will happen.
Edited by tpi2007 - 10/11/16 at 4:12am
 
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post #96 of 223
what is more efficient, using the gas directly on cars, or using the same to generate electricity and running cars out of it?
trouble is the batteries are still not good, but in 15 years I can see it improving...


people talking about freedom, use your freedom to leave Germany, or to protest, block this law...
I think it's an interesting idea... you can't deny that cars are generating a lot of air pollution.
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post #97 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBR View Post

what is more efficient, using the gas directly on cars, or using the same to generate electricity and running cars out of it?
trouble is the batteries are still not good, but in 15 years I can see it improving...


people talking about freedom, use your freedom to leave Germany, or to protest, block this law...
I think it's an interesting idea... you can't deny that cars are generating a lot of air pollution.

They're actually really close...

A car that gets ~30mpg is 1.43lbs/c02 per mile.
A tesla with the 100kwh battery is ~1.5 lbs/mile.
That's just c02, not counting all of the other crap that comes out of the tailpipe. thumb.gif

And that's providing that 100% of the power is from a coal plant with 0% coming from a natural gas, renewable, etc.


Before someone screams bloody murder over how dirty the batteries are, The entire process of getting oil from the ground and making it gas, and then transporting, storing and selling that gas is not exactly clean ether.

Fun fact: Most gas stations in the usa can have a 3 gph leak on each of their products before any alarm goes off. That's 72 gallons of gas, usually x3(87,89,91) per day that can be dumped into the ground.
post #98 of 223
This plan seems like it would unfairly target Samsung phones.
post #99 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

I love how idealists don't think of the repercussions of their proposals. Without ICE you would not be able to sustain the current population of the earth. The battery tech just is not there yet.

Well yes, yet. Were not talking now, we're talking 14 years from now. 14 years is a long time for tech to advance, especially now that the big players have started to invest big into battery tech.

And its not like all the ICE cars that are in use suddenly have to be put aside, just the cars bought starting from 2030 are not allowed to have an ICE. So ICE cars made prior to 2030 can easily be in use for another 10 years or more.
post #100 of 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by HMBR View Post

what is more efficient, using the gas directly on cars, or using the same to generate electricity and running cars out of it?
trouble is the batteries are still not good, but in 15 years I can see it improving...


people talking about freedom, use your freedom to leave Germany, or to protest, block this law...
I think it's an interesting idea... you can't deny that cars are generating a lot of air pollution.

The disadvantage of gas powered cars, is that you need to keep a high pressure gas tank inside the car. It is much more dangerous than gasoline or electric batteries to keep in a car, and in many countries it is illegal to park a gas powered car in an underground for any chance of leaks and gas buildup.
So even if it is as efficient (which from what I read it is not), the cons outweigh the pros.

Also electric cars can potential reduce the chance of a car burning up in case of an accident, as long as the batteries are shielded well, and it is a lot more efficient and reduce the amount of moving parts by a huge amount compared to either alternatives, allowing you to overall have a much more reliable car than any other options in terms of mechanics. If an electric motor dies, it should be easily replaceable, and batteries are mostly designed to be replaced quickly.
Oil or gas powered cars are still more complicated relatively than electric cars.
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