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Need Help - New Loop Starting to Corrode

2K views 53 replies 15 participants last post by  TurboJ81 
#1 ·
I just finished my new rig - Titan X Pascal + EKWB water block + Alphacool Radiator + Asus ROG VIII Maximus MB (includes EKWB block) . Water has been circulating for about a month now and as you can see in the pictures I have a corrosion problem. Using distilled water only with some PTNuke added. Note the picture of the water block - started as Nickle color as seen on the EKWB web page but after only a week or so it started to turn color. I swabbed the surface seen in the other picture and indeed have a "rusty" substance on the Q-tip.

Obviously I have some bad chemistry going on here. What can I do to stop the corrosion? Some kind of additive? I am using PETG hard tubing so I don't want to melt anything...

Any suggestions? Quick fix to at least stop the corrosion? Drained the loop and the water is clean.




 
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#2 ·
When you try and remove the brownish stuff does it come away leaving behind the nickel colour or has it stripped the nickel away? I have a nickel block that I've had for over a year now and used several different Mayhems Pastels through it and after I drained and cleaned it about a month ago mine was still the nickel colour. My only thought would be it's some sort of growth. Is it elsewhere in the loop or just in the block?
 
#4 ·
I am 99.99% certain it can't be biological because the color change started very shortly after the system was filled (about a week) and secondly I used five drops of PT Nuke.

I looked down into the radiator best as I could and did see a small area of orange color but don't know if it was there or not before I started (rad was brand new out of the box).

I only swabbed lightly with the Q-tip so I don't know if it would have cleaned it 100%. If this is the start of a corrosion issue and the brown in the radiator is the same I would never be able to clean out what has started. Only opportunity is to stop the reaction. Other than the cosmetic part of it the water is crystal clean with no particles visible. Even when I drained it over the weekend the water that came out looked as clear as what I put in from a brand new bottle of distilled.

DOM
 
#5 ·
Algae growth can, and often is, brown. A month is simply not long enough for that kind of severe corrosion unless you're using pure vinegar, or bleach for coolant. Please update us when you've had a chance to take apart your block and clean thoroughly with a toothbrush, some vinegar, and baking soda. I'm betting they'll shine right up, but we'll see!

What you've got there is a perfect environment for algae growth.
 
#6 ·
I hear what you are saying but like I said the discoloration started almost immediately and since PT Nuke is a biocide in the first place how would any algae get started or grow to that extent in such a short period of time? The rig is in a basement with no sunlight and the only other time I have ever seen that type of brown algae is in my aquarium with 12 hours per day of lights on (and then it took a couple of months or more after starting the tank).

After five minutes of searching for "PT Nuke Nickel water Block Corrosion" I am convinced I have a metal incompatibility possibly made worse by the PT Nuke. Seems like EKWB blocks over the years have had all kinds of troubles with such combinations.

Besides gaming I am using this box for lots of work stuff now so taking it down again for maintenance in the short term is a problem for me. My hope is there is something I could just add additive wise to at least stabilize things. I have had to since move the orientation of the Titan X to a standard "horizontal" position because there is just too much signal loss with the PCI riser cable. So now I can't see the water block itself since its face down.

The funny thing is that everyone on most of the posts I have found say something like "All of this is basic stuff you learned in high school chemistry class". Unfortunately I have never taken a chemistry class even through college...
 
#7 ·
If it's metal inconpatability I would completely drain the loop and use a cleaning solution to clean everything in the system pipes included and either use a coolant with a biocide in or looking up a biocide that doesn't cause the same issues. Either way I would say you should drain and clean everything as best you can.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by domenic View Post

I hear what you are saying but like I said the discoloration started almost immediately and since PT Nuke is a biocide in the first place how would any algae get started or grow to that extent in such a short period of time? The rig is in a basement with no sunlight and the only other time I have ever seen that type of brown algae is in my aquarium with 12 hours per day of lights on (and then it took a couple of months or more after starting the tank).

After five minutes of searching for "PT Nuke Nikel water Block Corrosion" I am convinced I have a metal incompatibility possibly made worse by the PT Nuke. Seems like EBWK blocks over the years have had all kinds of troubles with such combinations.

Besides gaming I am using this box for lots of work stuff now so taking it down again for maintenance in the short term is a problem for me. My hope is there is something I could just add additive wise to at least stabilize things. I have had to since move the orientation of the Titan X to a standard "horizontal" position because there is just too much signal loss with the PCI riser cable. So now I can't see the water block itself since its face down.

The funny thing is that everyone on most of the posts I have found say something like "All of this is basic stuff you learned in high school chemistry class". Unfortunately I have never taken a chemistry class even through college...
May want to take the issue up with EK, Sidewinder or Petra's Tech?
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by domenic View Post

I hear what you are saying but like I said the discoloration started almost immediately and since PT Nuke is a biocide in the first place how would any algae get started or grow to that extent in such a short period of time? The rig is in a basement with no sunlight and the only other time I have ever seen that type of brown algae is in my aquarium with 12 hours per day of lights on (and then it took a couple of months or more after starting the tank).

After five minutes of searching for "PT Nuke Nikel water Block Corrosion" I am convinced I have a metal incompatibility possibly made worse by the PT Nuke. Seems like EBWK blocks over the years have had all kinds of troubles with such combinations.

Besides gaming I am using this box for lots of work stuff now so taking it down again for maintenance in the short term is a problem for me. My hope is there is something I could just add additive wise to at least stabilize things. I have had to since move the orientation of the Titan X to a standard "horizontal" position because there is just too much signal loss with the PCI riser cable. So now I can't see the water block itself since its face down.

The funny thing is that everyone on most of the posts I have found say something like "All of this is basic stuff you learned in high school chemistry class". Unfortunately I have never taken a chemistry class even through college...
Yeah there was some really crappy plating that EK put out several years ago that they tried to blame on everything under the sun at first. If you weren't using EK branded coolant they wouldn't honor the warranty. If I remember correctly, they eventually gave in and admitted the plating was shoddy though. Who in the heck is telling you this is basic? It's not. There are people that get paid good money to maintain systems with dissimilar/similar metals in closed/open loops on much larger scales. It can get tricky.

How long you think it will be before you can confirm corrosion? This will likely make waves if it's more shoddy plating from EK, yikes.

Also, as I recall, one of the guys here that had the shoddy plated blocks (I think for a 5850) eventually just let it keep corroding until it was bare copper, then the block was fine.

Try to find a premix with biocide and corrosion inhibitor ready to go. I prefer Koolance, but there are several available. I'm still hoping it's just algea though!!
 
#10 ·
OK, I think I have undeniable evidence now that I have corrosion.

I had almost forgotten that this is my SECOND water block for the new Titan X. I actually ruined the first block I received because like an idiot I thought it was a good idea to superglue the LEDs into the block but after I had to go horizontal it would't fit into the PCIE slot with the new permanent LEDs. It was my fault so I just ordered a new one.

During the interim one week time frame however I had the first block running with the same distilled + 5 drops of PT Nuke going. I just took that block out of the closet & disassembled it. Take a look at these pictures & remember this was only running a week at best. Notice the corrosion clearly starting.

Below I took a closer picture of my current block as its running. I am no checmical engineer as I mentioned but to me this is just the natural progression of what I had with the first block. I know EKWB has a seperate forum here - perhaps I should place a cross post or ask them to take a look at this thread? I just assume they will say its my fault somehow.

Original water block after only one week or less with just distilled water + PT Nuke




Closer view of current (2nd) block with same fluid combo after about a month of service.

 
#11 ·
ahhhh crap, yeah that looks pretty conclusive D=

Get some premix and call it a day for now my friend. It won't stop it completely (that's pretty much impossible), but it will slow it waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down. I had no idea running a loop with no corrosion inhibitor would allow it to corrode THAT fast. I wonder if the PT Nuke actually increases the rate of corrosion?

According to this chart, you have got to have aluminium in your loop somewhere. I guess your radiator?

Here's the page explaining more about the galvanic corrosion chart.
 
#12 ·
Well that settles it you defiantly have some form of corrosion due to metal imbalance of some description as ForNever said probably due to some aluminium else where. You are left with the option of swapping out the block again and using different coolant or just using new coolant. Either way I would say you should do a full clean just to make sure that there isn't anything left on the components.
 
#13 ·
Besides the EKWB Titan block the only other components are the motherboard block (also EKWB) the Alphacool Radiator, and XSPC Raystorm Pro - just plastic other than that. All copper other than the Nickel GPU block.

According to the chart linked above my galvanic potential with Nickel & Copper is .59 or "less than optimal but still acceptable". All of my parts on this build are from well known reputable water cooling vendors and components. I just can't see how I have something reacting to such an extreme. Aluminium? Can't imagine where.

Can someone recommend / link a specific pre-mix clear coolant?
 
#14 ·
That's what I was just looking up. According to the link for your rad,

"Specifications:
Material internal: Mostly copper "

Not that a copper + nickle loop is corrosion free, but my GOD man, it shouldn't be that aggressive!!

I've always had good luck with corrosion/algea prevention with Koolance's line of premix, and gone as long as 2 years without changing coolant without issue, while using an all aluminum (crap) rad and copper blocks. This is the only product I can speak for, but there are certainly others that probably work equally as well.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitrzac View Post

Did you clean the radiator?
It sounds like he can't afford to tear down currently, so for now he just wants to stop further damage, although a full tear down and cleaning will likely be done when he can get around to it.
 
#17 ·
How can any loop NOT have copper? I bet anyone that is water cooling will have copper somewhere unless tehy speciifcally avoided it. Does anyone even sell a non-copper radiator? EKWB sells this Nickel version of the block and they must have anticipated that it would be used with copper by most people. Maybe the Titan X and this new block are so new I am one of teh first people to implement and see the problem?

I guess the best thing to do would be to replace the block altogether with their copper version (which is ironically cheaper) which shouldn't have any incompatibility since the radiator is also copper. Plus a good raditaor cleaning would also be in order but how the heck do you do that? Just flush it? Man it hurts my head to buy a THIRD of these blocks. Perhaps EKWB would "sponsor me" in replacing it for free with the copper version or even take some responsibility for such a reactive block. Who knows, maybe they do have some sort of materials issue or other defect. At a minimum they should have some sort if disclaimer on their website saying that if you don't go with copper you could run into issues. the only reason I went with Nickel was because it seemed to look nicer than the copper one. And being more expensive must = better right?
smile.gif
.

I put a link to this thread in the EKWB forum asking one of their employees to take a look at this thread.

DOM
 
#18 ·
Its probably best to get EK involved to see what they say as I would expect that sort of corrosion after years of use not a week so something is defiantly wrong. I've used EK nickel blocks ever since I started watercooling and had nothing compared to this even after years of use even with a copper radiator also from EK. So really not sure what to suggest further than contact EK and when you can do a full deep clean of the loop and replace the coolant.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by domenic View Post

How can any loop NOT have copper? I bet anyone that is water cooling will have copper somewhere unless tehy speciifcally avoided it. Does anyone even sell a non-copper radiator? EKWB sells this Nickel version of the block and they must have anticipated that it would be used with copper by most people. Maybe the Titan X and this new block are so new I am one of teh first people to implement and see the problem?

I guess the best thing to do would be to replace the block altogether with their copper version (which is ironically cheaper) which shouldn't have any incompatibility since the radiator is also copper. Plus a good raditaor cleaning would also be in order but how the heck do you do that? Just flush it? Man it hurts my head to buy a THIRD of these blocks. Perhaps EKWB would "sponsor me" in replacing it for free with the copper version or even take some responsibility for such a reactive block. Who knows, maybe they do have some sort of materials issue or other defect. At a minimum they should have some sort if disclaimer on their website saying that if you don't go with copper you could run into issues. the only reason I went with Nickel was because it seemed to look nicer than the copper one. And being more expensive must = better right?
smile.gif
.

I put a link to this thread in the EKWB forum asking one of their employees to take a look at this thread.

DOM
I think you misunderstood what I was getting at. "If the number is highlighted in yellow (copper is yellow when you cross reference it with nickle), the combination is less than optimal but still acceptable. If it is not highlighted (aluminum), the potential is high and this combination should not be used." There's no aluminum in that loop, so what gives with the crazy corrosion...

Actually copper is what you want. Copper has a much lower corrosion factor than aluminum when nickle is in the loop. We'll see what EK says. I really don't think buying new blocks is necessary. aside from cosmetics. Your blocks will perform quite well with, or without the nickle plating. There are cleaners you can buy when you have the time/energy to clean your loop up, but first and foremost is get some premix in there asap.
 
#20 ·
I just found & purchased a lot of 6x 1L bottles of clear XSPC EC6 on Ebay for $65 delivered.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-XSPC-EC6-High-Performance-Liquid-Cooling-Premix-Coolant-Clear-BoxOf6-/282228027468?hash=item41b619f04c:g:IJ0AAOSwHgVW8D1N

So why again isn't replacing the block with the copper version a good idea? Wouldn't that eliminate the problem (Nickel)? Not feeling comfortable breaking the seal on the one I have in hopes of somehow cleaning it and at best still have the metals mixed that don't like each other. If I don't seal it back exactly perfectly I risk cooking a $1,200 video card. I just dropped $60 in coolant. A new copper block is about $146 delivered. I am going to see if EKWB makes this right for me.
 
#21 ·
Another nickel block failure thread.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX7-2nr View Post

Another nickel block failure thread.
Yeah thanks for the contribution.

Dom, there is absolutely nothing really wrong with your blocks once you get some premix in there man. Granted they won't be shiny chrome, but hey, who can see them?

Get the premix in there for now, clean it up when you have a good 3 day weekend, refill it with premix again and game on bro.

Consider this. The blocks you have are high quality copper blocks, minus the shiny coating. The block you are considering purchasing are high quality copper blocks. I say learn from this, clean up a bit when you can and press on.

I feel guilty for not catching this earlier, and I'm sorry.
 
#23 ·
So the nickel is just a facade in front of the copper used for appearance - I get it now.

Man I planned this build for a LONG time ahead of time and thought I had everything covered. I never thought twice about the nickel not playing nice with the copper - hindsight is 20/20 however. Then again in this case from what I am reading and understanding the block shouldn't have reacted like it did so quickly. The pictures say everything and if I was EK I would be worried that what happened to me could happen to any of their customers purchasing this block along with commonly available high quality components like my motherboard, CPU block, and radiator. If there was even a chance of even a minor version of this corrosion EK should have some sort of disclaimer on their product spec page. I checked again and they don't make reference or provide any cautions around coolant types or interactions between metals.

I wrote EKWB customer service a nice email with a link to this thread so lets see what they do. I asked them for a replacement copper block in exchange for the two blocks that I purchased that show corrosion. This site alone has a lot of influential enthusiasts that listen to these sorts of situations because it could be anyone of us next time. I hope they realize this and do the right thing for me. Any of their customers that have the same issue should also be offered a new block. A warrantee is a warrantee.

DOM
 
#25 ·
I know how frustrating this is. You've invested a lot of time and money into this, and it's a kick to gut to say the least, but at the end of the day EK is going to go leaglese and claim you didn't use their premix, so go screw.

Would a corrosion inhibitor have prevented their cheapo, crap nickle plating from disintegrating in A MERE 4 WEEKS?

Yes, more than likely it would have.

What we have here is a calculated risk from a company in order to obtain maximum profit. They know good and well you'll likely replace that video card in a year, or two, and along with it, the water block. All they have to do is bide their time and produce a shiny product that will last one solid year. You've exposed that (in spades) by accelerating the process with distilled + PT Nuke only. A recipe for disaster in their eyes.

Like I said, nothing will come from your nickle plating flaking off, save not looking pretty. How did the water look when you drained it? Flawless, yes? Aside from going to bed knowing your video card water block doesn't have a mirror finish, nothing is going to be different from now on.

EK should probably stop producing "nickle plated" water blocks, but they know some people are attracted to shiny, and they will exploit that.

They won't exploit that from you again, rest assured.

Drain and refill with a premix when you can. Clean your loop out when you can, and the sun will rise tomorrow. EK will still be churning out junk nickle plating, and somewhere out there a guy will get suckered into buying shiny, it just won't be you.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmpxchg8b View Post

So I read this thread, and maybe I missed something, but has anyone figured out, exactly what has caused this kind of discoloration so quickly?
Yes, super cheapo nickle plating + no corrosion inhibitor = super cheap nickle plating getting trashed.
 
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