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post #21 of 54
The problem with HDR adoption is that manufacturers need to create higher quality sets instead of just cutting costs.

You need higher bit-depth and you need WAY better contrast ratio, better peak brightness, better black level, etc.

Thankfully, HDR might just kick them in their butts so they can actually improve panel quality instead of just spamming more pixels and "smarts" at consumers.
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post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

The problem with HDR adoption is that manufacturers need to create higher quality sets instead of just cutting costs.

You need higher bit-depth and you need WAY better contrast ratio, better peak brightness, better black level, etc.

Thankfully, HDR might just kick them in their butts so they can actually improve panel quality instead of just spamming more pixels and "smarts" at consumers.

This is what I'm hoping for, a wave of nice 4k VA monitors with full array local dimming, hopefully by 2018. Sony has their Z series TV lineup scheduled for next year including a 43" model, these will use FALD and should have 620 dimming zones hopefully like the current Z9D. I'd settle for this temporarily until similarly good monitors but with higher refresh rate and VRR come out.
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post #23 of 54
and remember, color is a space. Space is a volume:

http://www.avsforum.com/color-volume-why-it-matters-for-hdr-tvs/
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post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

and remember, color is a space. Space is a volume:

http://www.avsforum.com/color-volume-why-it-matters-for-hdr-tvs/

That's a harder problem to solve though.

Hell, LG's OLEDs don't even cover all of DCI-P3, much less Rec 2020 that they're supposedly shooting for.
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post #25 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

That's a harder problem to solve though.

Hell, LG's OLEDs don't even cover all of DCI-P3, much less Rec 2020 that they're supposedly shooting for.

Harder for OLEDs, LCDs and plasmas don't really exhibit that problem in the high brights as much.

Here is my Wide gamut monitor compared to 3 spaces:



Although my monitor can't get as dark or bright (probably) as OLED, it does fill out the spaces decently at near peak brightness - although my monitor is calibrated to about 83 nits.

With the HDR standards, that peak brightness is much higher and OLED TV can have a hard time keeping a wide color gamut is those high brightness levels.
Edited by umeng2002 - 12/8/16 at 1:22am
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post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by iARDAs View Post

Does HDR really make a "WOW" difference?

Yes. I'm using PS4 Pro on a 4K HDR TV (Ultra HD Premium certified) and The Last of Us looks stunning in 1800p/60fps/HDR.

HDR makes a huge difference. It needs to be seen IRL. You can't just watch comparison pictures/video on your SDR screen. I see people on daily basis saying HDR "looks bad" or is not a big difference. But HDR looks kinda bad or "wrong" in screenshots and videos when watched on a SDR monitor. Everything needs to support it. Monitor/TV (even AVR if used). PC/Console. Video/Game. Watching HDR on a SDR monitor is like trying to watch 120-180 Hz/fps on a 60 Hz monitor. You can't see it.

For me, HDR makes a bigger jump in IQ than going from 1080p -> 4K/UHD. Colors just pop. Shadow detail is much better too. Everything looks more detailed. But obviously all HDR TV's has 4K/UHD anyway.

Many HDR TV's can't show HDR properly, because they use 8 bit panels. Still they are marketed as "HDR" - Look for Ultra HD Premium certification for a good HDR experience on TV's. HDR requires HDMI 2.0, which is why I don't understand why Sony claims PS4 Original and Slim supports HDR. These have HDMI 1.4. So they should not be able to do it. But I have not tested it, as I only have the Pro.


Can't wait for proper HDR PC monitors with 100+ Hz. I'm getting one ASAP. But I think the nits requirement is going to be the biggest problem..

Maxwell (minus 750 Ti) and Pascal should support HDR according to Nvidia. I'm not sure which AMD GPU's support it.
https://developer.nvidia.com/getting-know-new-hdr

"From my perspective, HDR display technology really is the biggest leap forward in the quality of pixels in over 20 years. We’re finally progressing from the point where the screen is able to use a wider portion of human perception. Colors can both be richer and brighter. It really can be a whole new experience. I’ve personally encountered scenes in games that give me chills when I see them in HDR for the first time. Since your game likely already renders the data for it, failing to allow all of it to reach the display seems like a waste."
Edited by Lass3 - 12/8/16 at 2:43am
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post #27 of 54
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lass3 View Post

Yes. I'm using PS4 Pro on a 4K HDR TV (Ultra HD Premium certified) and The Last of Us looks stunning in 1800p/60fps/HDR.

HDR makes a huge difference. It needs to be seen IRL. You can't just watch comparison pictures/video on your SDR screen. I see people on daily basis saying HDR "looks bad" or is not a big difference. But HDR looks kinda bad or "wrong" in screenshots and videos when watched on a SDR monitor. Everything needs to support it. Monitor/TV (even AVR if used). PC/Console. Video/Game. Watching HDR on a SDR monitor is like trying to watch 120-180 Hz/fps on a 60 Hz monitor. You can't see it.

For me, HDR makes a bigger jump in IQ than going from 1080p -> 4K/UHD. Colors just pop. Shadow detail is much better too. Everything looks more detailed. But obviously all HDR TV's has 4K/UHD anyway.

Many HDR TV's can't show HDR properly, because they use 8 bit panels. Still they are marketed as "HDR" - Look for Ultra HD Premium certification for a good HDR experience on TV's. HDR requires HDMI 2.0, which is why I don't understand why Sony claims PS4 Original and Slim supports HDR. These have HDMI 1.4. So they should not be able to do it. But I have not tested it, as I only have the Pro.


Can't wait for proper HDR PC monitors with 100+ Hz. I'm getting one ASAP. But I think the nits requirement is going to be the biggest problem..

Maxwell (minus 750 Ti) and Pascal should support HDR according to Nvidia. I'm not sure which AMD GPU's support it.
https://developer.nvidia.com/getting-know-new-hdr

"From my perspective, HDR display technology really is the biggest leap forward in the quality of pixels in over 20 years. We’re finally progressing from the point where the screen is able to use a wider portion of human perception. Colors can both be richer and brighter. It really can be a whole new experience. I’ve personally encountered scenes in games that give me chills when I see them in HDR for the first time. Since your game likely already renders the data for it, failing to allow all of it to reach the display seems like a waste."

The point that was being made I think is that HDR is a decoding standard / meta data and nothing more. Image quality like always is going to depend on a large variety of factors from the source to the panel, which is even somewhat subjective. Nobody can really say "HDR makes the difference". High quality source material and equipment to play it makes a difference. Really good SDR can look better than poor implementation of HDR
Edited by adamjp - 12/8/16 at 9:18am
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by umeng2002 View Post

Harder for OLEDs, LCDs and plasmas don't really exhibit that problem in the high brights as much.

Here is my Wide gamut monitor compared to 3 spaces:

Although my monitor can't get as dark or bright (probably) as OLED, it does fill out the spaces decently at near peak brightness - although my monitor is calibrated to about 83 nits.

With the HDR standards, that peak brightness is much higher and OLED TV can have a hard time keeping a wide color gamut is those high brightness levels.

But at roughly what brightness levels does OLED start to fall apart in this regard? QLED would probably fare much better in color volume.
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post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by boredgunner View Post

But at roughly what brightness levels does OLED start to fall apart in this regard? QLED would probably fare much better in color volume.

You're going to have to search for specific reviews and forum users that profile the specific display:

http://www.avsforum.com/color-volume-why-it-matters-for-hdr-tvs/
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post #30 of 54
I just found out that Obduction has HDR support. Someone with an LG OLED or Sony Z9D (though who'd buy this) should give it a try, it'd be pure visual bliss.
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Phanteks Enthoo Evolv ATX Tempered Glass Logitech G Pro Cooler Master Storm Speed-RX Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium HD 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Yamaha RX-V579BL Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE Fluance XL7C Fluance AVBP2 
AudioAudioAudioAudio
Gustard U12 Chord Mojo Yamaha YST-SW012 8-inch subwoofer Blue Yeti Microphone w/ Pop Filter 
OtherOtherOther
Furman M-8X2 Power Conditioner Ducky Pocket Mechanical Keypad (Cherry MX Blue) NZXT Hue+ 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850 @ 3.6 GHz XFX nForce 680i LT XFX GeForce 8800 Ultra EVGA e-GeForce 9800GTX+ 
GraphicsGraphicsRAMHard Drive
EVGA e-GeForce 9800GX2 EVGA GeForce GTX 295 dual PCB OCZ Reaper 4GB (2 x 2GB) DDR2 1066 Intel 330 Series 180GB 
CoolingCoolingCoolingOS
Thermalright Venomous-X Delta AFC1212D-PWM Silverstone AP141 Windows 7 Professional 64-bit 
MonitorKeyboardPowerCase
LG Flatron IPS235 Ducky Shine DK9087 Shine 2 (Cherry MX Red, gree... EVGA G2 850W Lian-Li PC-7HX 
MouseAudio
Mionix Castor Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty P... 
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