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post #181 of 559
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Originally Posted by 4thKor View Post

Just noticed the next Sprint starts in four days!smile.gif

 

 

Oh my - so soon.

 

Congratz to this team! 

 

 

Team OCN - Let's do this :sonic:

post #182 of 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

the main concern is the Stab lok type.

I'm surprised your insurance company allows your condo board to keep that. The Federal Pacific company has gone out of business as well.

It's unreasonable for them to disallow an upgrade to 100A service. A 60A panel only is good for maybe 3-4 breakers (15-20A) and at least in the USA , the NEC code requires the bathroom and kitchen to have dedicated 20A ones.

edit: the specifics are Two (min) 20-amp circuits for kitchen countertop receptacles , One 20-amp circuit for the laundry receptacles (may not be needed if you don't have laundry facilities inside your condo), One 20-amp circuit for the bathroom receptacles

& A minimum of 100 Amp 3-wire service for a single-family dwelling unit. NEC 230.79

Being a condo, it most likely isn't possible to upgrade the service since an increase in wire size to the panel would be required. I don't know how the condo is setup, but i'm guessing, to pull new wire, it would have to go through other tenet space. I doubt the wire is in conduit, and if it is, it would only be sized to the wire that's in it. The panel itself could easily be replaced with a new 60 amp panel, Square D would be my choice. A 60 amp panel handles more than 3-4 breakers. Though the panel is single phase there are 2 phases of 60 amps each, plus when doing a service calculation not all circuits are calculated at full load.
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post #183 of 559
Insufficient power can be a real hassle. People don't realize that everything has to start with the incoming service. I've had clients want me to put 200 amp boxes in with just 100 coming in. Hard to make them understand that it won't work. Legally, anyway. I've seen things in this part of the country that would make your hair stand on end. I'm sure you've seen some "stuff" too though.
post #184 of 559
Congrats on the win guys! Very well done!

Thanks again for letting me hang out for a bit! And thanks to those who dropped by on AT's site to say hi, it certainly helped to widen our view a little, to remind us that we're all in this together, for science and for fun!
post #185 of 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

the main concern is the Stab lok type.

I'm surprised your insurance company allows your condo board to keep that. The Federal Pacific company has gone out of business as well.

It's unreasonable for them to disallow an upgrade to 100A service. A 60A panel only is good for maybe 3-4 breakers (15-20A) and at least in the USA , the NEC code requires the bathroom and kitchen to have dedicated 20A ones.

edit: the specifics are Two (min) 20-amp circuits for kitchen countertop receptacles , One 20-amp circuit for the laundry receptacles (may not be needed if you don't have laundry facilities inside your condo), One 20-amp circuit for the bathroom receptacles

& A minimum of 100 Amp 3-wire service for a single-family dwelling unit. NEC 230.79

I suspect it has to do with the building being built in 1961, and winds up falling into grandfathered policies due to it having previously been rentals that were then converted to condos. As for our condo board, I have nothing nice to say so I won't. Condo management? Same thing, and I have a LOT of nasty things to say about them.

As for breakers, they have seven in total... Five 15A breakers (with some weird assumptions made for them, including one of the living room ones being shared across three separate plugs, and one of the kitchen ones being shared not only with one side of the "dining room" but also the fridge, and I think the kitchen lights too... And one that it's sole purpose is the outlet outside that I keep turned off), and a double breaker (30A) for the stove.

Hence why I want at least 100A service to the place, because I want each kitchen outlet on their own circuit, the fridge on it's own, and the two dining room ones being separate would be nice too. Oh right, and four independent ones in the living room, plus the bedroom being on it's own as well as the bathroom on it's own. Essentially, I want the entire place rewired, so it would just be easier to get a house.

Condo management won't even let us have access to our main breakers, as they're locked in the utility room, and if it happens to be tripped during an "inconvenient time" they expect you to wait upwards of a full day to have power turned back on to your suite. Did I mention they apparently only have one guy that can get into the utility room despite managing something like 600 buildings in the city?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffident View Post

Being a condo, it most likely isn't possible to upgrade the service since an increase in wire size to the panel would be required. I don't know how the condo is setup, but i'm guessing, to pull new wire, it would have to go through other tenet space. I doubt the wire is in conduit, and if it is, it would only be sized to the wire that's in it. The panel itself could easily be replaced with a new 60 amp panel, Square D would be my choice. A 60 amp panel handles more than 3-4 breakers. Though the panel is single phase there are 2 phases of 60 amps each, plus when doing a service calculation not all circuits are calculated at full load.

I suspect the wiring would probably have to go through at least one of my neighbours before reaching the utility room, but there's a slim chance it could be accessed via the laundry room... It would all depend on how it was built. No idea if conduit was used or not, as it's a wooden framed three story building that was completed back in 1961.

All I know is that I'd love to have a bit more flexibility with things, ESPECIALLY with having a dedicated circuit for my benching rig (see previous list of what I want to do for the electrical in my place in my reply to AlphaC). Dream home will have five or even six 20A circuits dedicated to my benching area simply because I want to be able to do 2-card SLI subzero benching and have the possibility of using a rotary phase exchange on at least one card and the CPU when not using "easier" methods of subzero benching like dry ice or LN2. In this place I'd be happy with just two circuits for such and then dedicated ones for the HTPC, and each gaming rig, but that's me being somewhat of a dreamer in the long run ^_^;;;
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thKor View Post

Insufficient power can be a real hassle. People don't realize that everything has to start with the incoming service. I've had clients want me to put 200 amp boxes in with just 100 coming in. Hard to make them understand that it won't work. Legally, anyway. I've seen things in this part of the country that would make your hair stand on end. I'm sure you've seen some "stuff" too though.

Yeah, it's soooooo annoyingly painful to have to try and balance things.... If I have the crock pot going, I turn BOINC off on my rig just so I'm "safe" when making coffee... And I don't even boil water and grind my beans at the same time as a "just in case" measure despite them being on different circuits.



tl;dr: Whoever did the electrical in my place originally made a LOT of assumptions back in the day. One person living in it, one television, and barely any accessories I swear.
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post #186 of 559
People didn't use nearly as much power back then. 60 amps was standard residential service. I've worked on old houses that still had the ancient knob-and-tube wiring in service. Now THAT'S crazy!
post #187 of 559
If someone were to report something like that in the USA , you can expect there to be changes (i.e. replacements) implemented at the main breaker and at all branch circuits to each tenant, if there cannot be a 100A box at the branch you're on. If the building can't get insured then they're in deep trouble if anything goes wrong at all. Building code violations basically have a precedence over perceived "cost savings".

If the building doesn't have 100A service to each tenant then it is ridiculously under-powered for 2017. Obviously, if wire runs and conduit/ EMT pipe need to be replaced and boxes need to be updated then it's a "major capital improvement" write off. I've seen buildings from 1899 with 100A service to each tenant, so it's possible if there is the adequate push for it to be done, whether it is legal (lawsuit against the building and/or housing dept. investigations) or an ultimatum (i.e. building insurance will not insure without changes and no property management company will deal with an uninsured multifamily building).

I suspect 4thKor means rural areas where the code is not nearly as stringent? Two or more 20A for kitchen area are since 1959 NEC code.
Edited by AlphaC - 4/9/17 at 2:19pm
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post #188 of 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWulfe View Post

I suspect it has to do with the building being built in 1961, and winds up falling into grandfathered policies due to it having previously been rentals that were then converted to condos. As for our condo board, I have nothing nice to say so I won't. Condo management? Same thing, and I have a LOT of nasty things to say about them.

As for breakers, they have seven in total... Five 15A breakers (with some weird assumptions made for them, including one of the living room ones being shared across three separate plugs, and one of the kitchen ones being shared not only with one side of the "dining room" but also the fridge, and I think the kitchen lights too... And one that it's sole purpose is the outlet outside that I keep turned off), and a double breaker (30A) for the stove.

Hence why I want at least 100A service to the place, because I want each kitchen outlet on their own circuit, the fridge on it's own, and the two dining room ones being separate would be nice too. Oh right, and four independent ones in the living room, plus the bedroom being on it's own as well as the bathroom on it's own. Essentially, I want the entire place rewired, so it would just be easier to get a house.

Condo management won't even let us have access to our main breakers, as they're locked in the utility room, and if it happens to be tripped during an "inconvenient time" they expect you to wait upwards of a full day to have power turned back on to your suite. Did I mention they apparently only have one guy that can get into the utility room despite managing something like 600 buildings in the city?
I suspect the wiring would probably have to go through at least one of my neighbours before reaching the utility room, but there's a slim chance it could be accessed via the laundry room... It would all depend on how it was built. No idea if conduit was used or not, as it's a wooden framed three story building that was completed back in 1961.

All I know is that I'd love to have a bit more flexibility with things, ESPECIALLY with having a dedicated circuit for my benching rig (see previous list of what I want to do for the electrical in my place in my reply to AlphaC). Dream home will have five or even six 20A circuits dedicated to my benching area simply because I want to be able to do 2-card SLI subzero benching and have the possibility of using a rotary phase exchange on at least one card and the CPU when not using "easier" methods of subzero benching like dry ice or LN2. In this place I'd be happy with just two circuits for such and then dedicated ones for the HTPC, and each gaming rig, but that's me being somewhat of a dreamer in the long run ^_^;;;
Yeah, it's soooooo annoyingly painful to have to try and balance things.... If I have the crock pot going, I turn BOINC off on my rig just so I'm "safe" when making coffee... And I don't even boil water and grind my beans at the same time as a "just in case" measure despite them being on different circuits.



tl;dr: Whoever did the electrical in my place originally made a LOT of assumptions back in the day. One person living in it, one television, and barely any accessories I swear.

Well back in 1961 the only things they would have had plugged in would be a TV, radio, vacuum cleaner, lights and small kitchen appliances.
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post #189 of 559
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4thKor View Post

People didn't use nearly as much power back then. 60 amps was standard residential service. I've worked on old houses that still had the ancient knob-and-tube wiring in service. Now THAT'S crazy!

Yeah, friends of my mother had a late 1800's house that had knob and tube, the stuff from the early '20's (don't remember what it was), as well as aluminum AND copper wiring... Took them a full year to rewire everything.

And yeah, in the '60's things definitely were a lot different, but such is life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diffident View Post

Well back in 1961 the only things they would have had plugged in would be a TV, radio, vacuum cleaner, lights and small kitchen appliances.

Yup.... That and a fridge. I just wish the electrical would have been updated. But oh well, we're hoping for a house in the soonTM future (aka it's been bumped another 3-4 years while we take care of a bunch of the rest of the "we really should do" list).

I also want CAT6 wiring throughout the house, but I'm a nutball that's wanted that in his dream home for over twenty-five years.... Aka despite improvements, I still refuse to trust wireless technology. Then again, while it's useful, when you're dealing with critical things (playing as a healer or tank in an MMO, streaming audio to the internet, using a central NAS in one's network (we haven't done this yet, but it's in the plans)...) you want the least amount of latency as well as fewest packet dropouts, so I guess it isn't conspiracy levels of paranoia with one's setup tongue.gif
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post #190 of 559
We still have a couple of old houses out here that haven't been touched since they were built, still knob & tube, cloth covered where it goes into the walls uncovered in the attic spaces. Also has those funky twist light switches.

Museums now, no one lives in them anymore and they do a display on the electrical systems used during the turn of the century (1899-1900) there is an old guy that comes in to maintain it for the museum. I guess as long as they do not alter it (the building or wiring) in any way it still good to go. (they don't use it for anything but lighting now)

The thing that gets me is seeing the lead pipes for water feed into the house. Not one inch of copper/plastic to be seen other than the wires and bakelite plugins.

Wonder we didn't burn more houses down than we did.
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