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post #31 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Can anyone post a bullet point summary of all the dismissal points (why it's worthless/wrong) regarding this research, and similar research?
Double negative. Such a thing is unthinkable(does it become true if no one answers the call?) however performed routinely with an everyday complacency. Literally "true until proven wrong" is the motto of the authority trolls of this century.
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post #32 of 181
Sensible subject it seems here. I don't find it surprising that an activity you do for multiple hours (for years) will influence your behavior. Spending less time in "regular" social interaction must have a consequence... Good and bad. This article treat about the bad and I don't think it's so surprising.
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post #33 of 181
This study makes no sense, though. You can't test the effects of gaming on behavior of children this age, by testing children this age who are already playing video games. This is like testing the behavior patterns of book readers who have already taken it upon themselves to read books.

Gaming is a heavily immersive experience; even more so for a child. It plays off the natural wants of the mind; for children it does this before the brain has even fully developed. It offers a representation of risk/reward that mimics how the mind wants the world to work, but the world doesn't work to reward the path of least resistance. I can easily imagine that children who are already gaming might reject a world that doesn't work the same way.

The difference between boys and girls, is interesting.. but it's hard to go there because there's such a strong bias towards looking at genders as a mere identity choice, rather than a biological difference that has roots in cognition and therefor behavior. That's a debate we're all going to have to ignore, judging by the direction legislation is going. Our universities are currently a mess because of that the controversy surround that particular question. Results by gender could be biological or a result of how we raise girls to act like girls, who knows.. who even cares.

As far as the risk/reward thing goes, I can see how children who were already gaming.. could have adopted it for the natural reasons that it is appealing. From there, parenting is the crucial factor that will keep them from thinking that games are representative of reality. Just because a child consciously knows gaming is not reality, does not mean that his mind is subconsciously deliberating what is worth his attention and what is not. Children don't know why they feel rewarded by games, and they don't know that feeling rewarded is unequal to being rewarded. I won't allow my children to game unless they see gaming, in an entirety, as a reward. Without this I think gaming will naturally ruin their behavior -- that's just my own personal opinion. Start to finish, gaming must be structured to be an option out of a number of rewards for a task that includes it's own inherent reward, such as education.

For the kids in this study, I don't know what's going on. Their parents could be just allowing their kids to game at any moment that the parents want to unload themselves from the responsibility of dealing with the kid. This frequently happens with television too, and it's bound to lend to the development of behavior issues. The parents themselves have behavioral issues, if they allow their children to game frequently.

And the study is just bad. It shouldn't go forward trying to make deductions from the kind of information that it's getting. It's not a study so much as it's a suggestion, disguised as a study. It imposes a need to discuss the flaws ad-nauseum to combat the implications, and at the end you can only lift up your arms and say "well it's true that x amount of gamers DO have behavioral issues and that's all we're saying." They shouldn't release failed studies if they aren't going to take any intellectual responsibility for them.

Statistics are such a joke. I feel compelled to do an entire rant on that, alone, but you can't do that every time someone publishes a failed study like this because it happens on a daily basis. It's a disgrace to scientific method.
Edited by Mookster - 1/9/17 at 8:29pm
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post #34 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

This study makes no sense, though. You can't test the effects of gaming on behavior of children this age, by testing children this age who are already playing video games. This is like testing the behavior patterns of book readers who have already taken it upon themselves to read books.

Gaming is a heavily immersive experience; even more so for a child. It plays off the natural wants of the mind; for children it does this before the brain has even fully developed. It offers a representation of risk/reward that mimics how the mind wants the world to work, but the world doesn't work to reward the path of least resistance. I can easily imagine that children who are already gaming might reject a world that doesn't work the same way.

The difference between boys and girls, is interesting.. but it's hard to go there because there's such a strong bias towards looking at genders as a mere identity choice, rather than a biological difference that has roots in cognition and therefor behavior. That's a debate we're all going to have to ignore, judging by the direction legislation is going. Our universities are currently a mess because of that the controversy surround that particular question. Results by gender could be biological or a result of how we raise girls to act like girls, who knows.. who even cares.

As far as the risk/reward thing goes, I can see how children who were already gaming.. could have adopted it for the natural reasons that it is appealing. From there, parenting is the crucial factor that will keep them from thinking that games are representative of reality. Just because a child consciously knows gaming is not reality, does not mean that his mind is subconsciously deliberating what is worth his attention and what is not. Children don't know why they feel rewarded by games, and they don't know that feeling rewarded is unequal to being rewarded. I won't allow my children to game unless they see gaming, in an entirety, as a reward. Without this I think gaming will naturally ruin their behavior -- that's just my own personal opinion. Start to finish, gaming must be structured to be an option out of a number of rewards for a task that includes it's own inherent reward, such as education.

For the kids in this study, I don't know what's going on. Their parents could be just allowing their kids to game at any moment that the parents want to unload themselves from the responsibility of dealing with the kid. This frequently happens with television too, and it's bound to lend to the development of behavior issues. The parents themselves have behavioral issues, if they allow their children to game frequently.

And the study is just bad. It shouldn't go forward trying to make deductions from the kind of information that it's getting. It's not a study so much as it's a suggestion, disguised as a study. It imposes a need to discuss the flaws ad-nauseum to combat the implications, and at the end you can only lift up your arms and say "well it's true that x amount of gamers DO have behavioral issues and that's all we're saying." They shouldn't release failed studies if they aren't going to take any intellectual responsibility for them.

Statistics are such a joke. I feel compelled to do an entire rant on that, alone, but you can't do that every time someone publishes a failed study like this because it happens on a daily basis. It's a disgrace to scientific method.
Tell me how it works, please? I don't see Batmans and Spidermans around. Instead I see divorce lawyers, psychiatrists and a bunch of others...
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post #35 of 181
Study of the Bobo Doll study is in order. thumb.gif
post #36 of 181
Ah, the Internet. If there's a study agreeing with what it has already deemed Truth, the study is perfect, the case is closed, and it is a waste of money because anybody could have told you that. If there's a study disagreeing with Truth, it must be flawed in all ways and the researchers must be biased. thumb.gif

I'm exaggerating, but I see it all the time on reddit and, to a lesser extent, here. Skepticism is great, but a lot of the time it comes across as poopslinging trying to find something disagreeable, anything to discredit the paper and/or authors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Can anyone post a bullet point summary of all the dismissal points (why it's worthless/wrong) regarding this research, and similar research?

Probably not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Here is a perspective.....

As a Father of a child with Autism, my wife and I found he is most comfortable playing video games and drawing. As compared to going out and running around as much as the other kids. While he does join the others outside, he spends more time with video games and drawing than the others.

The problem with studies like this is it makes it easy to point to video games as a cause of behavior, when it isn't, thus leading to unaddressed issues. It was several years of multiple specialists to get our son the help he needed.

Reports like this just need to be careful, as they could lead to exclusion of activities that are helpful to many. Be it games, painting, singing, Yo-Yos.

The paper itself (or at least the parts available for free...) doesn't seem to insinuate that media is a cause, but it's found a statistically significant association. A sample size of 876 is pretty good, and I'd assume there's at least 400 males being studied. That's enough to make a conclusion within a few percentage points. Genres of games aren't listed, sure, but does that matter? There's obviously a link whether Australian boys are playing Candy Crush or GTA. A more detailed breakdown would be interesting, but the results overall are clear.

Now, the HuffPo article? I'm not clicking it. It's trash, I'm sure. That goes for most science reporting in the media, but especially when anything remotely political can be tied to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

This study makes no sense, though. You can't test the effects of gaming on behavior of children this age, by testing children this age who are already playing video games. This is like testing the behavior patterns of book readers who have already taken it upon themselves to read books.

Why?
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post #37 of 181
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

No.
redface.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Study of the Bobo Doll study is in order. thumb.gif

Sorry, you're not allowed to talk about social learning theory in the context of violent gaming on OCN. Plus, the statistics are bound to be flawed anyway (whatever that means)
    
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post #38 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascii Aficionado View Post

Lack of social interaction will do this to anyone, but this has nothing specifically to do with video games.

Not specifically... But it can be applied...

Excessive gaming resulting in incredibly low social interaction results in...

It's really not rocket science. Gaming and other media consumptions have tremendous benefits, but costs do exist. Decreased social interaction being one. Since social interaction is pretty influential on mental health...

Down the spiral of the chicken and egg we go.
post #39 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcn77 View Post

Tell me how it works, please? I don't see Batmans and Spidermans around. Instead I see divorce lawyers, psychiatrists and a bunch of others...
I'm not talking about the 1 dimensional view of the world that people work with for the sake of practicality. When you're talking about how a thing like gaming actually shapes the mind of a child, you can't take such a reductive view and say "they know it's not real therefor they disregard all information from it."

Things don't work that way.
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post #40 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetfeather View Post

Sorry, you're not allowed to talk about social learning theory in the context of violent gaming on OCN.
It's just boys being boys. If they don't kill their parents like the Menendez brothers it's a symptom of male oppression.

(Better, clearly less ridiculous, example would be the very real problem of boys shoving broomsticks up other boys' backsides in High School sports. That behavior isn't new nor is it merely "boys being boys".)
Edited by superstition222 - 1/9/17 at 8:53pm
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