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[HuffPost] This Is What A Few Hours Of Gaming Does To Boys' Mental Health - Page 6  

post #51 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

That's incredibly insulting. You are accusing researchers of falsifying a study solely to appease a special interest group of some sort with absolutely no evidence that this is true. This is basically the definition of libel.

Wouldn't be the first time.
post #52 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by lombardsoup View Post

Wouldn't be the first time.

I hope you realize the implications for a researcher's career when that happens. It usually ends right then and there, and no apology will undo that.

So yes, the researchers here hate video games and fudged their results to try and get them outlawed. rolleyes.gif
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post #53 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Correct, a study backed up by actual evidence that disagrees with your worldview is a personal attack on you and your hobby.
Why would they? The study didn't blatantly ask that. It asked parents how frequently their kids did activities X, Y, and Z and then asked for information about emotional and physical well-being. This is just one of the links they found.

So by having parents fill out a sheet that includes "how much time does your child play video games" and "How often do they act up?" you don't think there is going to be selection bias in play? Throw in the lack of a control sample and you have a data set that you might as well throw in the toilet.


Show me a double blind with a control sample and I will be more than happy to accept the results.
post #54 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

So yes, the researchers here hate video games and fudged their results to try and get them outlawed. rolleyes.gif

Reminds me of this court case
post #55 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

So by having parents fill out a sheet that includes "how much time does your child play video games" and "How often do they act up?" you don't think there is going to be selection bias in play? Throw in the lack of a control sample and you have a data set that you might as well throw in the toilet.

If they're adjacent to each other? Maybe. However:

Quote:
Logistic regression analyses were conducted adjusting for age, SES, and body mass index z-score, separately for males and females.

In other words, there were also questions about socioeconomic status and BMI. We can rephrase your post and end up with:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

So by having parents fill out a sheet that includes "what is your child's BMI" and "How often do they act up?" you don't think there is going to be selection bias in play? Throw in the lack of a control sample and you have a data set that you might as well throw in the toilet.

Also this doesn't need a control, strictly speaking. A control group is good for changing exactly one aspect, such as placebos in drug trials. However, here it simply isn't possible. That's generally true in most of psychology and sociology. That doesn't make it wrong per se, since comparisons can be made within the group. I don't think anybody will argue that social sciences are as equally rigorous as physical sciences though. An acceptable R2 for correlation in a psych experiment is around 0.8 IIRC, while in physics it's more like 0.99 minimum. Humans are a bit more complex than subatomic particles. tongue.gif
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post #56 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I hope you realize the implications for a researcher's career when that happens. It usually ends right then and there, and no apology will undo that.

So yes, the researchers here hate video games and fudged their results to try and get them outlawed. rolleyes.gif

Of course, agenda based "science" doesn't ever happen. Nope, Tobacco, Sugar, Oil, NRA, and Green Energy folks have never paid off researchers before rolleyes.gif
post #57 of 181
Just another regressive left "study" trying to demonize male behavior. Sure it could be legitimate and warrant further scientific study, but given the climate we live in these days I feel confident dismissing this as just another trash study that "found" what they were looking for to drive their agenda.
post #58 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Do parents have more of an effect? I dunno. But that wasn't measured, therefore it really isn't relevant. This appears to be part of a much larger study about children's habits and how they spend their time.
That's incredibly insulting. You are accusing researchers of falsifying a study solely to appease a special interest group of some sort with absolutely no evidence that this is true. This is basically the definition of libel.
Unmeasured cannot be equated to irrelevant. I'm not sure where to begin on that one, it should be self evident.

As far as accusing these specific researchers of falsifying the study to appease the people funding them, I'm not going to get too far into that. It wasn't so much of an accusation as a suggestion for an alternative explanation to why the study was published despite being so stupid. You can call it incredibly insulting or blow it up into libel, if you like, but it's an important thought experiment to go through if you want to understand how these studies happen. There's an eternal conflict of interests when it comes to funding this type of work; you can choose to ignore it because you can't evidence or measure a misgiving within that conflict of interests, but that rigid way of thinking doesn't give you intellectual license to say much of anything. Personally, I don't find it very persuasive when I'm given a highly reductive illustration of what was measured, and scorned for recognizing what isn't measured.

It's pretty clear that this is measuring far more than only the impact of gaming on behavior of these subsets of children. They didn't do a good enough job of eliminating outside factors, and it's perfectly fair to wonder why you'd even publish results like this when they essentially say nothing. The only conclusion that you can draw with the reduced information given, here, is a wrong conclusion.. and you can see how quickly that conclusion gets drawn based on how the information is presented. It's reasonable to ask about motives, funding, special interests, also. If that's insulting, I guess I don't particularly care.
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post #59 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

If they're adjacent to each other? Maybe. However:
In other words, there were also questions about socioeconomic status and BMI. We can rephrase your post and end up with:
Also this doesn't need a control, strictly speaking. A control group is good for changing exactly one aspect, such as placebos in drug trials. However, here it simply isn't possible. That's generally true in most of psychology and sociology. That doesn't make it wrong per se, since comparisons can be made within the group. I don't think anybody will argue that social sciences are as equally rigorous as physical sciences though. An acceptable R2 for correlation in a psych experiment is around 0.8 IIRC, while in physics it's more like 0.99 minimum. Humans are a bit more complex than subatomic particles. tongue.gif

Pause argument: I never said anything about a BMI, i think you mis-quoted me accidently, or was that intentional. Either way no biggie, just wanna make sure I understand you correctly.

Resume argument: A control would help alleviate any selection bias. And no social sciences aren't as rigorous as natural sciences. Not that they don't try to be, but because it's extremely difficult in many cases (such as this one) to create ideal controls on the subject matter. In order to achieve the same level of rigorous studies as natural sciences do, you would generally have to do something illegal or extremely unethical in order to do so, such as spy on the children without their parents knowledge, or kidnap the kids or something.

Not blaming the social science researchers for their lack of proper controls in their studies, just saying it's just not possible in most situations, and unfortunately without said controls, can't be as widely accepted.

For fun, I think something isn't considered factual in physics until it reaches a consistency within 5 standard deviations or 99.9999426697% of the time. (Thanks for the percentage wikipedia!)
Edited by DNMock - 1/9/17 at 10:06pm
post #60 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNMock View Post

Of course, agenda based "science" doesn't ever happen. Nope, Tobacco, Sugar, Oil, NRA, and Green Energy folks have never paid off researchers before rolleyes.gif

Funny to see how many people don't have a healthy distrust in people with avested interest in making money.

Leaded gasoline isn't bad for you smile.gif

The honest truth is that as someone who does benchmarking and reviewing as a job you can manipulate the test in any number of ways to get the result you want as long as the reader never really looks into how the testing was done. We've been hearing how horrible video games are for 20 years but crime has massively gone down and before you bring up school shootings, we also have the most drugged country in all of history.

The biggest factor I've seen in bad behavior in boys is a bad home environment, so biggest thing to worry about Moms and Dads is to not abuse your children. I don't like getting much into politics here and I'd rather go back to talking about all of the amazing hardware shown off at CES. Good night!
   
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