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[TR] [Updated] Report: Dell UP3017Q OLED monitor has been canned - Page 4

post #31 of 105
Must be smoking some crazy stuff if you think OLED is crap. rolleyes.gif
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post #32 of 105

OLED is far from crap, in fact, it's the first truly versatile LCD competitor that tries to address the main flaw of LCD (that colour is filtered out from a pure, homogeneous white source instead of generating said colour at the source), but it also has fundamental problems that make it unsuitable for multiple applications.

 

Flaws that aren't a problem of the concept itself but the manufacturing process, but flaws nonetheless.

   
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post #33 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Been using multiple LG OLED TVs as a monitor for going on 2 years now. The 2016 models improved a lot of things for PC use. Anyone who claims they are prone to burn-in, or can't be used as a monitor doesn't know what they are talking about. There's a few people on these forums that use them and a couple over on AVS forums.

Desktop usage isn't going to be as good as it is on a normal monitor because it's a TV, and it has ABL and ABSL. ABL will dim the screen based on how bright the image is, which can be noticed on the desktop sometimes. ABSL can be disabled in the service menu, which basically just slowly dims the TV down when it detects nothing moving on the screen for a few minutes. It can sometimes start happening if you are reading a forum or something. I disabled mine using my harmony remote, and a couple other owners on AVS have to because it can trigger even in normal movie content. Even with ABSL disabled, playing a UI heavy game like WoW or D3 for 12 hours straight, I get no burn-in or noticeable image retention.

Until we see OLED monitors, a perfect setup would be a large deep desk with a 55-65" LG OLED for gaming/movies and a ~40" 4K IPS for desktop use. My 65" is wall mounted, and I have my keyboard/mouse on a small stand on wheels. I choose my distance based on what i'm doing, and when I want to watch movies I wheel it out of the way and recline in my sofa which is about 3 feet behind where I sit for computer usage. After you see OLED, your going to make it work with everything you do... going back to IPS after gaming on them is like gouging your eyes out.


Well, there is a reason why they don't make them for desktop usage. And your experience is only two years. Let's see if burn-in or burn-out happens in the coming months. Desktop monitors have a bigger set of requisites compared to a TV where lower resolution from a distance is ok and more tricks can be applied to prolong the lifespan of the panel and people won't notice or care. You even mentioned some technologies they implemented that can only be turned off from the service menu (the ones that can). They probably have some legitimate concerns based on their test data.

People surely report burn-in and burn-out from OLED smartphones after anywhere from under a year to two years usage, so it's not some complaint coming out of nowhere. But for someone ditching phones after two years maybe it's a doable usage case.
Edited by tpi2007 - 1/11/17 at 1:27am
 
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post #34 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Well, there is a reason why they don't make them for desktop usage. And your experience is only two years. Let's see if burn-in or burn-out happens in the coming months. Desktop monitors have a bigger set of requisites compared to a TV where lower resolution from a distance is ok and more tricks can be applied to prolong the lifespan of the panel and people won't notice or care. You even mentioned some technologies they implemented that can only be turned off from the service menu (the ones that can). They probably have some legitimate concerns based on their test data.

People surely report burn-in and burn-out from OLED smartphones after anywhere from under a year to two years usage, so it's not some complaint coming out of nowhere. But for someone ditching phones after two years maybe it's a doable usage case.

Even if I had to buy a new OLED every 2 years, I would still be on OLED. Any other panel technology looks really bad after being on OLED for so long. It's a totally different realm of image quality that nothing else comes close too.

Smartphone OLEDs use a different type of OLED technology than LG OLEDs. They are more prone to burn-in, and are an absolute worse case scenario given the very static images on them 24/7. LG TVs do a pixel "reflush" every time you turn the TV off. It completely resets any image retention you may have. Not a single LG owner has reported burn-in over on AVS and those threads are massive, growing 30-50 posts a day. If someone managed burn-in, they'd be the first reported LG OLED TV owner to do so.

Burn-in isn't going to get easier to obtain with panel age. If anything, it gets harder just like plasma. If I can play WoW for 12-15 hours a day, for two weeks straight (Legion launch tongue.gif), burn-in is never going to happen.

The #1 reason they aren't making OLED monitors is demand. The demand for $2,000+ monitors is abysmally small, and the cost of making a brand new OLED panel (as dell tried here) is incredibly high. LG invested billions into their plants to achieve what they have now, and they only produce two sizes - 55" and 65".
Edited by Murlocke - 1/11/17 at 1:44am
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post #35 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Even if I had to buy a new OLED every 2 years, I would still be on OLED. Any other panel technology looks really bad after being on OLED for so long.

Smartphone OLEDs use a completely different type of OLED technology than LG OLEDs. They are far more prone to burn-in, and are an absolute worse case scenario for it. LG TVs do a pixel "reflush" every time you turn the TV off. It completely resets any image retention you may have. Not a single LG owner has reported burn-in over on AVS and those threads are massive, growing 30-50 posts a day, and there are multiple PC users.

Burn-in isn't going to get easier to obtain with panel age. If anything, it gets harder just like plasma. If I can play WoW for 12-15 hours a day, for two weeks straight, burn-in is never going to happen.

The #1 reason they aren't making it for monitors would be demand. The demand for $2,000+ monitors is abysmally small, and the cost of making a brand new OLED panel (as dell tried here) is incredibly high.

What about burn-out of certain OLEDs?

Anyway, I fully get it, but as you reckon, it's very expensive technology.
 
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post #36 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Even if I had to buy a new OLED every 2 years, I would still be on OLED. Any other panel technology looks really bad after being on OLED for so long. It's a totally different realm of image quality that nothing else comes close too.

Smartphone OLEDs use a different type of OLED technology than LG OLEDs. They are far more prone to burn-in, and are an absolute worse case scenario given the very static images on them 24/7. LG TVs do a pixel "reflush" every time you turn the TV off. It completely resets any image retention you may have. Not a single LG owner has reported burn-in over on AVS and those threads are massive, growing 30-50 posts a day. If someone managed burn-in, they'd be the first reported LG OLED TV owner to do so.

Burn-in isn't going to get easier to obtain with panel age. If anything, it gets harder just like plasma. If I can play WoW for 12-15 hours a day, for two weeks straight, burn-in is never going to happen.

The #1 reason they aren't making it for monitors is demand. The demand for $2,000+ monitors is abysmally small, and the cost of making a brand new OLED panel (as dell tried here) is incredibly high. LG invested billions into their plants to achieve what they have now, and they only produce two sizes - 55" and 65".

If I understood right; you use a 65 inch lg tv for gaming and watching shows and a ips for computer use? - do you think someone could use a 55" decently enough for computer use also? currently using a 40inch va panel for computer use and games but dont game much anymore.
    
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post #37 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

What about burn-out of certain OLEDs?

Anyway, I fully get it, but as you reckon, it's very expensive technology.

You mean death from usage? Far as I know 2016 OLED have an estimated 100,000 hour lifetime. Significantly higher than 2015 and previous models. I use mine close to 15 hours a day, at 2370 hours right now.

At 15 hours a day of usage, it'll still take 6,666 days (or 18 years) to reach the estimated lifetime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djxput View Post

If I understood right; you use a 65 inch lg tv for gaming and watching shows and a ips for computer use? - do you think someone could use a 55" decently enough for computer use also? currently using a 40inch va panel for computer use and games but dont game much anymore.

I use my 65" for everything simply for convenience. Any size is possible as long as you adjust your setup accordingly. Wall mount the TV, and use a small keyboard/mouse desk on wheels. Adjust your distance based on what you are doing. On a typical computer desk, 55" would not work well. You'd want to be at least 4-5 feet away.

I would not recommend an OLED for mostly desktop usage though, while it still looks vastly superior to IPS on the desktop, the dimming protection OLED has can be distracting at times and the PPI on a smaller 4K would be noticeably better. If you spend most your time gaming/watching movies, and don't mind a few quirks with desktop usage, than OLED is great.
Edited by Murlocke - 1/11/17 at 2:29am
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post #38 of 105
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

What about burn-out of certain OLEDs?

Anyway, I fully get it, but as you reckon, it's very expensive technology.

You mean death from usage? Far as I know 2016 OLED have an estimated 100,000 hour lifetime. Significantly higher than 2015 and previous models. I use my close to 15 hours a day, at 2370 hours right now.

At 15 hours a day of usage, it'll still take 6,666 days (or 18 years) to reach the estimated lifetime.

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks. Some people complain about the blues giving up sooner.

Anyway, I was just reading this article and it seems clear why it would be problematic using OLEDs for, say, professional computer usage. Say you're a photographer doing photo editing. The kind of image retention that happens after as little as 45 minutes can potentially affect your entire workflow.
 
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post #39 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

Yes, that's what I meant, thanks. Some people complain about the blues giving up sooner.

Anyway, I was just reading this article and it seems clear why it would be problematic using OLEDs for, say, professional computer usage. Say you're a photographer doing photo editing. The kind of image retention that happens after as little as 45 minutes can potentially affect your entire workflow.

Older OLEDs suffered from that issue, but LG ones do not. They use a completely different OLED type (WOLED) which more or less completely resolved the blue issue.

Image retention is a thing and it happens in as little as a few minutes of a static image - but you'll never notice it and it's nothing to worry about.

If you play a game for a few hours which has a completely static UI, and then throw up a white screen you can see that the TV slightly dimmed down that section of the TV to prevent further retention. If you throw up a solid dark gray image, you can usually barely make out the UI right after a gaming session. Dark gray is the only color that will show it. This goes away simply by turning the TV off then back on, or doing something else for a minute or so. I have never noticed in real content, I only noticed it when I was new to OLED and being careful by throwing up slides to check for burn-in all the time.

My friend who has the much older Samsung OLED (RGB OLED way more prone to burn-in), got his task bar burned in pretty bad after he left his computer on few a couple days with no screen saver enabled. It was very noticeable in real content. He hid his taskbar for a few weeks, and now even on solid images it's completely gone.

I'm a firm believer that permanent burn-in is near impossible on these. Even if you let it get out of hand by keeping a computer on for a few days, with no moving images, my guess is that running the TV with a moving image for the same amount of time would clear it all up. The TV also offers a feature that will shut the TV down for one hour, and do a thorough cleaning of the panel. I've never had to do it, because every time you turn the TV off normally it does a shorter version of it.

With that said, I would still recommend running a screensaver just because they are so expensive. tongue.gif
Edited by Murlocke - 1/11/17 at 2:22am
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post #40 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Murlocke View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Who's OLEDs did this Dell use? LG?

LG does not produce OLEDs under 55" to my knowledge, it had to be a custom made panel and whoever made it clearly did not know what they were doing.
IIRC, the panel was (going to be) made by Samsung.
    
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Zowie EC2-A Zowie G TF-X Fiio E17 v1 Sennheiser HD 598 
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Overclock.net › Forums › Industry News › Hardware News › [TR] [Updated] Report: Dell UP3017Q OLED monitor has been canned