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Kaby Lake Overclocking Guide [With Statistics] - Page 208

post #2071 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman99 View Post

Clock it up to 4.5GHz then run Prime 95 stress test, the VID will go that high. VID now works with max turbo clock speed and CPU load variation.smile.gif
I think you might be missing my point... The idea is to be able to compare without any overclocking whatsoever - in order to measure the potential.

If a person takes a brand new i7-7700k and puts it into a m/b with no overclocking options enabled, and does anything that maxes all the cores (which can be as simple as just moving a window around the screen), the 4 cores will go to 4400 (not 4500) and the corresponding VID could (in theory) be compared. (It's much easier to get 4 cores to 4400 than to stress only a single core in order to see 4500.)

On my machine, with completely default BIOS settings (er.. UEFI settings) - left to intel defaults, all 4 cores jump to 4400 with a VID of 1.170 if I run 8 threads of linpack or if I just move a chrome window around rapidly.

If you, for example, were to do the exact same thing, but your VID was only 1.15 with all 4 cores at 4400, you'd probably have a better chip.

From what I've seen, the VID (as reported by HWMonitor and HWInfo) doesn't seem to be impacted by actual load, only by clock speed.
Edited by garyd9 - 4/21/17 at 11:49pm
    
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post #2072 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by garyd9 View Post

I think you might be missing my point... The idea is to be able to compare without any overclocking whatsoever - in order to measure the potential.

If a person takes a brand new i7-7700k and puts it into a m/b with no overclocking options enabled, and does anything that maxes all the cores (which can be as simple as just moving a window around the screen), the 4 cores will go to 4400 (not 4500) and the corresponding VID could (in theory) be compared. (It's much easier to get 4 cores to 4400 than to stress only a single core in order to see 4500.)

On my machine, with completely default BIOS settings (er.. UEFI settings) - left to intel defaults, all 4 cores jump to 4400 with a VID of 1.170 if I run 8 threads of linpack or if I just move a chrome window around rapidly.

If you, for example, were to do the exact same thing, but your VID was only 1.15 with all 4 cores at 4400, you'd probably have a better chip.

From what I've seen, the VID (as reported by HWMonitor and HWInfo) doesn't seem to be impacted by actual load, only by clock speed.

I just ran Prime95 and VID was 1.275v then RealBench was 1.227v. VID adjust to load in the CPU. Overclocking does not change what the maximum VID is at 4.5GHz for your CPU. Test and see for your self, VID is set in the CPU and can't be changed. I do this testing all the time for folks like you.
post #2073 of 2829
Hi guys, I'm new to overclocking.
I have Asus Z270f Strix (latest bios 906), 7700K, Corsair Vengeance LPX 3200Mhz.
All settings are in Auto mode and everything is fine, but after the XMP mode is on, the VCCIO, VCCSA and Standby voltages are slightly overestimated.
Should i worry about this and change them manually? Sorry for my english redface.gif

post #2074 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman99 View Post

Test and see for your self, VID is set in the CPU and can't be changed. I do this testing all the time for folks like you.
Exactly... the VID is set in the CPU. It's set by Intel as a "stable" voltage for the given frequency. No, it can't be changed. We're on the same page with this.

So if, for a given frequency of 4400, my i7 has a VID of 1.17 and yours has a VID of 1.16, then wouldn't that indicate that Intel, when they set the VID's, felt that your chip required less voltage for 4400 when compared to mine?

The reason for using 4400 is that it's much easier to cause all 4 cores to go to 4400 than it is to get 1 core to 4500 (when using default intel settings for the chip.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wingman99 View Post

I just ran Prime95 and VID was 1.275v then RealBench was 1.227v. VID adjust to load in the CPU. Overclocking does not change what the maximum VID is at 4.5GHz for your CPU.
This doesn't agree with my own testing even while I type this. I have HWInfo open (which reports a VID for each of the 4 cores) and the only "stress" on the machine is me moving the browser window around. That causes all 4 cores to pop to a 44x multiplier, and VID on all 4 of them to 1.170.

I stop moving the browser window, and all 4 cores drop to a 8x multiplier (800MHz) and the VID drops to 0.800 for each of them. (There are occasional spikes for single cores as Windows does stuff in the background.)

Now I start 8 threads of linpack (via linx.exe) and the cores jump back to 44x (4400 MHz) with a VID of 1.170. Linpack starts by getting the memory buffers populated... during that time, my temps jump to 50C. After a few seconds, linpack starts actually processing AVX instructions and my temps jump to ~80C, but the frequency (multiplier) and VID are still the same (4400 and 1.170.) Obviously, while processing the AVX instructions, the load is much greater, but the VID isn't.

I'll attach a screen snippet (capture.png) showing the pattern. In the "Clock" graph you can see that the core jumps to and stays at 4400. As well, the VID jumps to and stays at 1.17 (or 1.169), but the temperature graph shows obvious differences of load...

    
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post #2075 of 2829
The default VID overclockers normally refer to are just the name (designation) of a "VID table" a chip is designed to work with and cannot be changed. How many different "bins" or vid designations are available, 10, 20, 30? You'd have to work at Intel to find out.

But it essential for the CPU (punching in 00, ff etc) to dial in voltage state it requests from the motherboard and is related to power management.

In the case of ASUS Z bioses, the adaptive voltage are set in such a way that it scales with the chip's VID table. Overclocks are based on tweaking the Turboboost state multiplier.

And since Intel only guarantees reliability within the chip's rated frequencies, options like the following can help "stabilise" your CPU's required voltages for the turbo multipliers you've set manually.
-Offset (Adaptive mode - applies to just turbo multipliers)
-LLC
-IA DC Load Line

Regular overclockers may have a preference to manual, offsets, adaptive + offset, Auto.

My personal preference is Adaptive + Offset + Speedshift (HWP). Adaptive is going to makes a barely noticeable difference in idle power consumption. *However*, it allows your chip (vary as with silicon lottery) to run noticeably cooler on idle..
My skylake runs at a typical of 0 to + 5C (+ small spikes from application launches) above ambient on normal light usage.

Some may argue DPC latency in power states can occur. However HWP (than speedstep) has reduced this significantly to make it a worthwhile tradeoff.

Remember with speedstep, I had to keep the min freq state to 80%. Before DPC latency becomes a problem with the massive frequency flips.

But on HWP, it is completely stable like a locked chip even at min freq 5%.Though its pretty sad Asus took about 9 months after inception of HWP to a year to implement the first BIOS With this capability (Around 3101 beta for Z170).

There are a select few users who use this method of OCing as an "extended frequency range" OC with full power management capabilities enabled. But YMMV as always.
Edited by encrypted11 - 4/22/17 at 5:59am
post #2076 of 2829
@Darkwizzie Please update my line in the spreadsheet smile.gif

Username: skingun
CPU Model: 7700k
Base Clock: 100
Core Multiplier: 50
Core Frequency: 5000
Cache Frequency: 4800
Vcore in UEFI: 1.4
Vcore: 1.440
FCLK: Reminder: 1000
Cooling Solution: Delidded, Custom Loop
Stability Test: 8 hours RealBench v.2.44

Batch Number: unknown
Ram Speed: (3200 15-17-17-35-1T)
VCCIO: 1.160
VCCSA: 1.152
Ram Voltage: 1.350
Motherboard: Asus Apex
LLC Setting: 5
Misc Comments: Adaptive voltage. No AVX offset. All C states / Speed Step enabled.


Edited by skingun - 4/22/17 at 1:56am
post #2077 of 2829
How high would you dare to push the cpu volt for 24/7 ? I run a full cusom loop, EK block on the cpu. The cpu is delid and atm i run it at 5100mhz (1.360v). While gaming ther cpu is around 37-48c and while stressing it in cinebench it tops around 61-63c.

Ofc i wanna run it as fast as possible, 5.2 or 5.3, but it takes around 1.435v for it to boot on 5.3.
Would 1.450v be okay for 24/7 if the cpu never goes over 75c ?
post #2078 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweWiking View Post

How high would you dare to push the cpu volt for 24/7 ? I run a full cusom loop, EK block on the cpu. The cpu is delid and atm i run it at 5100mhz (1.360v). While gaming ther cpu is around 37-48c and while stressing it in cinebench it tops around 61-63c.

Ofc i wanna run it as fast as possible, 5.2 or 5.3, but it takes around 1.435v for it to boot on 5.3.
Would 1.450v be okay for 24/7 if the cpu never goes over 75c ?

Same exact situation here! Lets see what guys say
post #2079 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by SweWiking View Post

How high would you dare to push the cpu volt for 24/7 ? I run a full cusom loop, EK block on the cpu. The cpu is delid and atm i run it at 5100mhz (1.360v). While gaming ther cpu is around 37-48c and while stressing it in cinebench it tops around 61-63c.

Ofc i wanna run it as fast as possible, 5.2 or 5.3, but it takes around 1.435v for it to boot on 5.3.
Would 1.450v be okay for 24/7 if the cpu never goes over 75c ?
thumb.gif

if we only knew
there are users that have around here, but not kaby lake

I'm kinda in the same boat
my 7600k is fine with 1.375v for 5.2
but 5.3 needs 1.44v to boot and not lock up after a minute or so
for actual benching I would need more

see you found the sweet spot on you're CPU as did I, once you have to really ramp up voltage for an additional 100Mhz you know when the chip is at an end
getting it stable even in RealBench might require actually more than 1.45v

just saying

if be fine with 1.45v, if that really is the end of it
my temps are fine (hint, you have to set a few additional voltages manually if you're using an Asus, as they just jump through the roof if left on auto once you hit 5.3)

at the end of the day
of you want to
shrug
why not
if it degrades you have to drop down to 5Ghz most likely
in a year or 2
if it degrades
many sandy have not degraded while living on the edge
others have
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post #2080 of 2829
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaKeN View Post

Same exact situation here! Lets see what guys say
Personally I would not exceed 1.4V 24/7 with C states enabled assuming temps are ok. That said whilst voltage does play a part it's mostly current that kills CPU's so I guess it comes down to what you use your P.C for, constant heavy work loads obviously isn't going to help.
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