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post #41 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astreon View Post

Which proves my point about hz kids that just can't restrain themselves from insulting whomever doesn't follow their hzgod thumb.gif

I didn't know about Doom, thanks for correcting me. Watch Dogs is a simple example of how taxing games can be even on FHD, it isn't there as specific genre game, it just shows that new games can be ridiculously demanding, to a point where even 144 fps is hard to reach. I expect more new AAA games to follow that trend.

The MSAA hurts fps less than you think in WD2. The difference from worst to none is less than 50 fps, and it's still way below 240 anyway smile.gif

And I also believe frunction can speak for himself and doesn't need advocates explaining his thoughts for him.

I wasn't insulting you, you insulted yourself. I just pointed it out. Thanks for calling me a kid though. If i had kids they could have kids by now.

It's fine to have your opinions but the way you project them is everyone is stupid and you know best. You don't. And you talk down to people with your opinions all the time. You aren't likely going to tell me anything, certainly about PC monitors that i didn't know 15 years ago. Though i don't think i know everything, but you certainly haven't yet. And it's not even like i don't enjoy spirited debate, or relevant opinions that make a good point, even if they are a little snarky. But you don't make many.

240Hz is the future for this type of monitor, regardless of your opinion, or even mine, they are going to exist, and people are going to want them and Coil Whine from their video card might be the least of their worries, especially if they are overclocking under water, or wearing headphones, or cranking the sound on their surround system, it is probably the least of their worries. Fact is a lot of people buying this panel will probably be playing games that have been around for years, or nearly 20 years now in some cases and already can hit 240fps on their gtx 970. And people playing something like Overwatch today will still be playing Overwatch in 2-5-10 years for that matter and doing it at 240fps easily.
post #42 of 56
In what world calling someone an idiot is not an insult? rolleyes.gif Certainly not ours.

Last time I checked, forums were intended to discuss. There is no discussion when you get called an idiot for having a different point of view.

What some people can't stand is when someone doesn't really care for their expensive purchase, and doesn't consider it the best thing on the planet. I kinda don't understand that. Why would it bother me taht you don't care for G-sync (for example) when I do? WHY? Why would I go around insulting you because you don't need it, or can't really see the point of its huge pricetag?

What some guys here need is a mutual adoration society, not a forum. They need to hold hands, clap, sing and praise their techs, and if someone doesn't really treasue them the way they do... well, he's at best a blind dude, at worst - a pompous idiot that lacks the brain matter to understand what he's "dissing".

240Hz is - IN MY OPINION - entirely unnecesary for non-competitive gamers because 144hz is ridiculously smooth already and even 144hz isn't required in many games. Like I said in other thread - I'm the kind of "single player pleb" that turns on the motion blur in DOOM - and sets it to high - because it feels pretty to me. You know that with motion blur set to high, you will most likely not notice the difference between 240, 144 and 60 hz, do you? I welcome you to try. I tried and failed tongue.gif

And I highly doubt it EVER becomes a norm, because of the strain it puts on the GPUs. We're not ready, and we probably never will be. Makeshift solutions like "details to low" don't count. The coil whine argument is a serious one. I can't stand whining. My GPU is fairly silent at 100 fps, but at 200 it's already unbearable. Masking the problem with headphones or cranked up speakers doesn't really make it go away.

Also, 240 hz = TN. And TNs are... well... often considered insufficient. I'm not sure if there will be ever an IPS better than the AU Optronics M270. I think it's the pinnacle of "speedy IPS" technology (and the 4K 144hz one they are developing) and along with Samsung's upcoming 144hz 1440p VA "as good as it gets" for LCD. After two years AUO still has no competition in the 1440p 144hz IPS department, NONE.
post #43 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astreon View Post

You know that with motion blur set to high, you will most likely not notice the difference between 240, 144 and 60 hz, do you? I welcome you to try. I tried and failed tongue.gif

Wait, what? You want to enable software emulated motion blur and see if you can see a difference between 60hz and 144hz? I'm sorry, but this is hilarious. Do you realize the whole point of a 144hz monitor is to reduce motion blur and have more responsive input? Who in their right mind would buy a high refresh rate to help reduce motion blur and then crank up motion blur in-game? It's completely illogical.

And as stupid as your test is, any experienced gamer could tell the difference from the mouse input response.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k, 4.2ghz @ stock voltage asus gene-z evga 1060 ssc gskill 2x4gb ddr3 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
samsung ssd 830 256gb w10 pro x64 dell s2417dg g-sync @ 165hz pok3r mx silent 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
zowie fk1 @ 400 dpi, 1000hz zowie ps-r, zowie camade fulla 2 dac, akg k7xx sony a5000, 20.1mp 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k, 4.2ghz @ stock voltage asus gene-z evga 1060 ssc gskill 2x4gb ddr3 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
samsung ssd 830 256gb w10 pro x64 dell s2417dg g-sync @ 165hz pok3r mx silent 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
zowie fk1 @ 400 dpi, 1000hz zowie ps-r, zowie camade fulla 2 dac, akg k7xx sony a5000, 20.1mp 
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post #44 of 56
You didn't understand me. I don't use hi-motion blur to test anything. I mean that I find it looking pretty in single player games. And if I enable it, it obviously beats the point of high refresh, right? biggrin.gif That's the whole point of "preference". One may say that blur sucks but I find myself liking it because it looks pretty to me, lol.

I game for 25 years and I can't, for the life of me, test anything by my mouse response. Not hardcore enough, sorry. smile.gif
post #45 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astreon View Post

You didn't understand me. I don't use hi-motion blur to test anything. I mean that I find it looking pretty in single player games. And if I enable it, it obviously beats the point of high refresh, right? biggrin.gif

It's really unfortunate people like yourself have access to the internet.
    
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k, 4.2ghz @ stock voltage asus gene-z evga 1060 ssc gskill 2x4gb ddr3 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
samsung ssd 830 256gb w10 pro x64 dell s2417dg g-sync @ 165hz pok3r mx silent 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
zowie fk1 @ 400 dpi, 1000hz zowie ps-r, zowie camade fulla 2 dac, akg k7xx sony a5000, 20.1mp 
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CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 2500k, 4.2ghz @ stock voltage asus gene-z evga 1060 ssc gskill 2x4gb ddr3 1866mhz 
Hard DriveOSMonitorKeyboard
samsung ssd 830 256gb w10 pro x64 dell s2417dg g-sync @ 165hz pok3r mx silent 
MouseMouse PadAudioOther
zowie fk1 @ 400 dpi, 1000hz zowie ps-r, zowie camade fulla 2 dac, akg k7xx sony a5000, 20.1mp 
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post #46 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene-z View Post

It's really unfortunate people like yourself have access to the internet.

It's unfortunate that insults is all you can type here.
post #47 of 56
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astreon View Post

In what world calling someone an idiot is not an insult? rolleyes.gif Certainly not ours.

Last time I checked, forums were intended to discuss. There is no discussion when you get called an idiot for having a different point of view.

What some people can't stand is when someone doesn't really care for their expensive purchase, and doesn't consider it the best thing on the planet. I kinda don't understand that. Why would it bother me taht you don't care for G-sync (for example) when I do? WHY? Why would I go around insulting you because you don't need it, or can't really see the point of its huge pricetag?

What some guys here need is a mutual adoration society, not a forum. They need to hold hands, clap, sing and praise their techs, and if someone doesn't really treasue them the way they do... well, he's at best a blind dude, at worst - a pompous idiot that lacks the brain matter to understand what he's "dissing".

240Hz is - IN MY OPINION - entirely unnecesary for non-competitive gamers because 144hz is ridiculously smooth already and even 144hz isn't required in many games. Like I said in other thread - I'm the kind of "single player pleb" that turns on the motion blur in DOOM - and sets it to high - because it feels pretty to me. You know that with motion blur set to high, you will most likely not notice the difference between 240, 144 and 60 hz, do you? I welcome you to try. I tried and failed tongue.gif

And I highly doubt it EVER becomes a norm, because of the strain it puts on the GPUs. We're not ready, and we probably never will be. Makeshift solutions like "details to low" don't count. The coil whine argument is a serious one. I can't stand whining. My GPU is fairly silent at 100 fps, but at 200 it's already unbearable. Masking the problem with headphones or cranked up speakers doesn't really make it go away.

Also, 240 hz = TN. And TNs are... well... often considered insufficient. I'm not sure if there will be ever an IPS better than the AU Optronics M270. I think it's the pinnacle of "speedy IPS" technology (and the 4K 144hz one they are developing) and along with Samsung's upcoming 144hz 1440p VA "as good as it gets" for LCD. After two years AUO still has no competition in the 1440p 144hz IPS department, NONE.

I didn't really call you an idiot. I said you posted stuff in a way resembling one, as in "like a". Difference. Everyone "acts like an" idiot from time to time. Even me. But how you respond shows that you are still not ready to step into third person and adjust your tone or thinking.

I agree on the discussion part. However the way you speak is not that of discussion, but of "you're all stupid, this is the way it is period." I think something to the likes of " Not that stupid argument again, you don't need high refresh on your desktop, "I" never look at my mouse i looks where it's going blah blah" Well i'm sorry, I disagree and others do as well or they wouldn't bring it up, right? Don't you think there must be some merit to it for people to bring it up as a concern?

We, or "I" get that you think 240Hz is unnecessary. But it's sort of like saying 144Hz is unnecessary. Faster is better in this regard for gaming and we should only hope they continue to up the bar with faster displays and faster more responsive mice and hardware that supports it. How can you poo poo on progress like this after 15 years of terrible lcd tech?

Price of gsync, or anything in life for that matter and whether it's worth it is up to the individual whether you or i find it ludicrous or not. To each their own.

What strain it puts on Gpus? Like overclocking them does? Does anyone here or in the high end gaming scene care about that? And if a 970 can smash 240fps in CS what strain are you talking about? And speaking of Whine. For the record, for a long time every time i would hear someone complain about Coil Whine on the internet, i get just like you inside. Like what? Coil Whine? My pc room sounds like a jet engine, it doesn't bother "me", silence annoys me more, i even have extra fans blowing on my and an air conditioner. I cannot hear or discern my gpu above all the other noises anyway. And my pc sits 1-2 feet away from me on my desk with the fans 100% 24/7. All of them. I use No PWM and never have. Full blast winter or summer, idgaf. That's how much coil whine or fan noise bothers me.

So that's my opinion, but it apparently bothers other people or they wouldn't bring it up, like you did. So if i was to respond like you, it would be something like "oh don't give me that stupid argument, no one can hear their fans over ambient noise i blah blah". So who's the dbag in that situation?
Edited by KGPrime - 4/7/17 at 9:45am
post #48 of 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

I didn't really call you an idiot. I said you posted stuff in a way resembling one, "like a". Difference. Everyone "acts" like an idiot from time to time. Even me. But how you respond shows that you are still not ready to step into third person and adjust your tone or thinking.

That's like throwing a "softening part" to an insult. Makes it still an insult nonetheless, and to me it isn't any better than calling me an idiot downright. And I fail to see how giving arguments and thoughts of my own makes me "act like an idiot" anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

I agree on the discussion part. However the way you speak is not that of discussion, but of "you're all stupid, this is the way it is period."

Really? I kinda think it's the other way around. Every time I mention somewhere that to me 144hz wasn't the orgasmic experience, replies vary from "you must be blind then" to "It's really unfortunate people like yourself have access to the internet", like the nice guy above you said. IDK why people feel so... insecure... about anyone that "insults" their stuff, their choice, ESPECIALLY if they paid a lot of money for it (see: audiophiles). Really, 144hz stuff seems sort of like a discussion with an audiophile that a 10k $ power cord does diddly ****. Most of the time, he won't simply get over it. NAH. He'll instantly start calling you deaf, or he'll start making up stories that you only say it cause you've never heard it, or something. Sounds familiar?

I think there's some basic psychology behind all of this, this "insecurity". Let's put it this way: I like old video game consoles. I own many. When someone says "old video consoles are crap", I don't get haywire. I don't start insulting him, or trying to convince him that he's wrong, deaf, blind, stupid or retarded. I just accept it. He doesn't like it = he's entitled to it. I see nothing wrong about it.

Why for the holy f*** can it work the same for others regarding expensive, hi-tech stuff - audiophile tier, 144hz tier?
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

I think something to the likes of " Not that stupid argument again, you don't need high refresh on your desktop, "I" never look at my mouse i looks where it's going blah blah" Well i'm sorry, I disagree and others do as well or they wouldn't bring it up, right? Don't you think there must be some merit to it for people to bring it up as a concern?

Sure. But when I ask people "do you stare at the cursor when you're browsing", most say no. So I simply ask people whether this UNDENIABLE fact that the cursor move smoother has actually a VALID impact on their typical experience.

This is because I think (and obviously it's just my opinion) that people tend to cherrypick outliers as examples, but those outliers aren't the best representation of your "sum of experiences" or whatever. In other words, when you pay 2-3x as much, you expect something SEVERAL TIMES better and not the insignificant outlier thrown around endlessly as an argument.

Yes, I get it, it may be a big deal for some. I have no problems with that. If you buy an expensive car and talk about how awesome the tires look, one may say "okay, but that seems pretty insignificant to me, you don't even see the tires when driving"... you get my point? IN MY OPINION, talking about smooth cursor movement is like talking about the "flair" of the tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

We, or "I" get that you think 240Hz is unnecessary. But it's sort of like saying 144Hz is unnecessary. Faster is better in this regard for gaming and we should only hope they continue to up the bar with faster displays and faster more responsive mice and hardware that supports it. How can you poo poo on progress like this after 15 years of terrible lcd tech?

Because tech advance comes with a hefty price: and it's - yep, MONEY.
Let me put it this way:
1440p sure is nice. 4K looks great. 8K - awesome. 16K - even better. 32K... well, maybe a little too much. 64K - hey, wait... 128K - STOOOOP.....

It's not like you just can pick a better tech and VOILA. You have to pay for the tech (like 4K, significantly more expensive than FHD), you have to pay for the junk running the tech (think 1080Ti SLI for 8K = still nowhere near good enough), and you have to cope with increased heat generation, noise of the cooling system and power consumption.

It's never an improvement without sacrifices.
And when you say "240 hz is an improvement", I agree. it is.

but I'm not sure if it's worth the "collateral damage" it causes. In my honest opinion - NOPE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

Price of gsync, or anything in life for that matter and whether it's worth it is up to the individual whether you or i find it ludicrous or not. To each their own.

Of course. But with that attitude, we could only form mutual adoration societies. What's wrong with talking about our preferences and comparing them? I don't think there's anything bad coming out of this. The only negative part is what I mentioned before: people get angry, insecure, and start being snide at best, insulting at worst. Which is totally unnecessary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

What strain it puts on Gpus? Like overclocking them does? Does anyone here or in the high end gaming scene care about that? And if a 970 can smash 240fps in CS what strain are you talking about? And speaking of Whine. For the record, for a long time every time i would hear someone complain about Coil Whine on the internet, i get just like you inside. Like what? Coil Whine? My pc room sounds like a jet engine, it doesn't bother "me", silence annoys me more, i even have extra fans blowing on my and an air conditioner. I cannot hear or discern my gpu above all the other noises anyway. And my pc sits 1-2 feet away from me on my desk with the fans 100% 24/7. All of them. I use No PWM and never have. Full blast winter or summer, idgaf. That's how much coil whine or fan noise bothers me.

Well, English is not my main language, so perhaps I've used a wrong word here. By "strain" I meant that the 240fps is very demanding, and demanding = louder, hotter, etc.

I can see your point about jet engine PC, but mine's dead silent, and I really prefer it that way... so yeah, obviously "noise" isn't a problem for anybody, but for those who value silence (background silence at least) it's a problem. In a generation where high load = louder coil whine, it gets even worse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

So that's my opinion, but it apparently bothers other people or they wouldn't bring it up, like you did. So if i was to respond like you, it would be something like "oh don't give me that stupid argument, no one can hear their fans over ambient noise i blah blah". So who's the dbag in that situation?

See my explanation above. Again, when you're talking about something grand and you get the same small argument over and over, one may become slightly tired of it. It's like saying "give me something better".

And again, I've never said "stupid argument". I don't want to insult anybody when discussing, it's rather pointless. At worst, I may call someone a kid, but being a kid is nice,lol. Being an idiot, not so much.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KGPrime View Post

On a positive note ( actually all that stuff is positive, because it's intended to help or enlighten, but the wrong internal reflection would be only take it as negative or insults - which you chose will dictate the responses you receive from others and the relationships you have with others on the internet or in life.) But i don't think you are an idiot, or mean bad, or anything. I think you sound like you are Russian, or like from Estonia or somewhere around there? Why? I dunno, I bare no ill will it's just been my experience in life with people from those parts, lol. And i've dealt with a lot of them and even had friends from there, very similar thread about how they are, talk and mannerisms through them all. I would normally say it's each individual, but after years and years i know it must be culture, it's just something to work though adn keep in mind when we're all talking to one another.

haha, yeah, I'm from Eastern Europe indeed. Poland, to be precise. Gee, we must sound like awful douchebags then if we get recognized over some not-overly-pleasant internet discussion wink.gifbiggrin.gif

Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to elaborate on the subject, because it is interesting, somewhat.
post #49 of 56
You missed the point entirely, again. And you deny what is fact. You do not speak in general discussion or opinion, nor do you leave breath for altering opinions. I could post examples all day long but it would be for nothing it appears. You will argue. Again your counter arguments are not indicative of reality, especially as it relates to someone who would be in the market for a monitor like this and are therefor bad counter arguments and there probably isn't any way to make you see that. And for the record, i don't own this display, nor do i even own a 144Hz display currently, nor have i yet. So i'm not defending "my stuff" i'm defending the right for it to exist. More options is always better and that's the bottom line. If you had made much of an argument to the contrary that really matters and didn't keep pounding the same opinions and totally none sense counter arguments it into the dirt in every thread you post in you might have some ground to stand on. For instance others have made such comments that were "opinion" in relation to 240Hz being "needed" or not over other options that were coherent and made solid points in a tolerant tone without completely disregarding it's need to exist or expounding that it's basically ridiculous.
post #50 of 56
What "facts" do I deny?

Which of my counter arguments are "not indicative of reality"?

Do you deny that 240 fps causes some GPUs to whine loud, for instance? What is "not indicative of reality" in this statement?

Is that a completely ignorable problem to you? What if you cared for background noise? Would it still be a "meh" argument to you?


You don't have to defend inanimate objects, by the way. Those are not people. Their feelings don't get offended when I, umm, "disrespect" them.
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