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[Giz] First Genetic Results From Scott Kelly's Year In Space Reveal DNA Mysteries - Page 2

post #11 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by caenlen View Post

Yeah, I would love more details myself... telomeres are the measurement of age of our cells (I think)... this could be huge...
The way they've explained it, this would mean that you essentially don't experience measurable telomere aging at all for at least that 340 day window. This means a potentially drastic increase in lifetime expectancy for organisms that evolve to inhabit outer-orbits and potentially space as well.


And the odd thing is, they must have expected to be able to measure accurately enough to see the difference in telomere length between him and his twin for a 340 day length. So this would again infer that they couldn't even measure a difference between his launch day measurement and his return day measurement, but they did know they could measure a year's difference.

I'm almost inclined to believe the article, because the choice to use a twin represents an expectation for high accuracy while the article explicitly states no difference between launch day and shortly after the return.

I'll have to look into this a bit more I guess. If anyone finds a SciHub link feel free to share.
Edited by Mookster - 4/22/17 at 1:58am
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post #12 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by caenlen View Post

http://gizmodo.com/first-science-results-from-scott-kellys-year-in-space-r-1791775917
So like the jellyfish that lives forever by renewing its telomeres, perhaps we can travel infinite space after all and simply live longer... if at near lightspeed, perhaps are telomeres will also regenerate like the jellyfish and we essentially will live forever while traveling. Neat

yeah no.

travelling at light speed only changes what the observer can see due to the speed of the data being reflected towards them, and likewise towards you from them.


pretty obvious its likely just the lack of gravity causing the change. maybe some radiation but i would lean more towards gravity being the root cause.
post #13 of 21
Apparently gravity kills?
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post #14 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil View Post

yeah no.

travelling at light speed only changes what the observer can see due to the speed of the data being reflected towards them, and likewise towards you from them.


pretty obvious its likely just the lack of gravity causing the change. maybe some radiation but i would lean more towards gravity being the root cause.

I am glad you already know everything about the infinite space that our universe is expanding in to, since any single human is obviously capable of understand the cosmos in its entirety.

I am well aware I am probably wrong, I just think its neat to think about. You know why Einstein was a genius? It wasn't his mathematics, it was ideas that drove him to do the mathematics, like when he asked himself "I wonder what light looks like if I could run next to it and look at it at the same speed"

Good thing he didn't have you around, probably would have just put him down as a nutter.
    
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post #15 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by caenlen View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil View Post

yeah no.

travelling at light speed only changes what the observer can see due to the speed of the data being reflected towards them, and likewise towards you from them.


pretty obvious its likely just the lack of gravity causing the change. maybe some radiation but i would lean more towards gravity being the root cause.

I am glad you already know everything about the infinite space that our universe is expanding in to, since any single human is obviously capable of understand the cosmos in its entirety.

I am well aware I am probably wrong, I just think its neat to think about. You know why Einstein was a genius? It wasn't his mathematics, it was ideas that drove him to do the mathematics, like when he asked himself "I wonder what light looks like if I could run next to it and look at it at the same speed"

Good thing he didn't have you around, probably would have just put him down as a nutter.

I don't think he's right, we experience time and age because our atoms are vibrating and doing chemistry, if we get accelerated to the speed of light, our atoms would essentially freeze relative to each other and we would cease to age or perceive since if our atoms could keep vibrating, they would exceed the speed of light. Funny thing is we wouldn't notice this while on the spaceship, hence the perception part. People wonder how we can accelerate to the speed of light, I'm concerned how we can slow down from that, since no clocks, electronic or mechanical, work (vibrating atoms again) and you'd be stuck at the speed of light forever. This is why I pray that speed of light is a constant will be proved false, and that in conditions not currently observable to us it is different. This would allow sci fi warp bubbles.
Edited by Nightbird - 4/22/17 at 11:38am
post #16 of 21
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post

I don't think he's right, we experience time and age because our atoms are vibrating and doing chemistry, if we get accelerated to the speed of light, our atoms would essentially freeze relative to each other and we would cease to age or perceive since if our atoms could keep vibrating, they would exceed the speed of light. Funny thing is we wouldn't notice this while on the spaceship, hence the perception part. People wonder how we can accelerate to the speed of light, I'm concerned how we can slow down from that, since no clocks, electronic or mechanical, work (vibrating atoms again) and you'd be stuck at the speed of light forever. This is why I pray that speed of light is a constant will be proved false, and that in conditions not currently observable to us it is different. This would allow sci fi warp bubbles.

I think the science journal I read says the jellyfish technically lives forever because it can renew its telomeres, so if there is a way to change telomeres in any way, I would say thats an interesting field of study we should definitely invest more money into researching. I am not arguing it would lead anywhere, but sometimes you have to roll the dice when you have a lead.
    
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post #17 of 21
Zero-G would most likely prolong life anyways due to less work for the heart to pump blodd around the body due to lack of gravity.
post #18 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

The way they've explained it,
Quote:
they couldn't even measure a difference between his launch day measurement and his return day measurement, but they did know they could measure a year's difference.
Quote:
I'm almost inclined to believe the article, because the choice to use a twin represents an expectation for high accuracy while the article explicitly states no difference between launch day and shortly after the return.

As someone for whom I have developed an inordinate amount of respect for simply due to the type and level of intelligence they have exhibited within my line of sight during my affinity towards this site for it's ability to attract a generally more intelligent crowd than than the average (afaik),

I'm almost inclined to believe that you might consider the intended purpose of this experiment as, possibly, affirmational, rather than exploratory. And from this viewpoint (if you should choose to be concessible enough to entertain it), Sherlock could deduce a high possibility of unsubstantiated self-fulfillance of prophecy.

On the other hand, maybe someone with the proper resources and ambition could design an experiment to roughly estimate the capability of an animal to re-input such naturally/hypothetically unprecedented changes such as the lack of gravitation into it's diploidic seedform.

Either way, I'd still assume that skepticism is more prudent than ambition when the continuation of this particular learning exercise commences.

I mean, yea space is a whole new place, but universographically, how much different can our doorstep be from our living room (says the non-astronaut)?
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post #19 of 21
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Originally Posted by Nightbird View Post

I don't think he's right, we experience time and age because our atoms are vibrating and doing chemistry, if we get accelerated to the speed of light, our atoms would essentially freeze relative to each other and we would cease to age or perceive since if our atoms could keep vibrating, they would exceed the speed of light. Funny thing is we wouldn't notice this while on the spaceship, hence the perception part. People wonder how we can accelerate to the speed of light, I'm concerned how we can slow down from that, since no clocks, electronic or mechanical, work (vibrating atoms again) and you'd be stuck at the speed of light forever. This is why I pray that speed of light is a constant will be proved false, and that in conditions not currently observable to us it is different. This would allow sci fi warp bubbles.

Since you replied nicely unlike the other person i'll reply to you to further the conversation smile.gif Einstein was a nutter btw, but i'm ok with nutters.


Since no force is experienced to the viewer or the actor the molecules in a closed system would still move about normally, there would be no change. At most the persons viewing and acting would see a dilation of time in each of their actions towards the other as the data reaching each would be in theory delayed (*1).


If an open system is used and somehow you arent vaporized then using only speed and light as constants (*2) we would see again only force on the leading edge of direction of travel, which is not the pertinant portion of the system as we are looking for what causes dilation of time to the viewers. Using blue/red shift as an example if you looked at someone moving away from you, you should see a change in the color spectrum reflected towards you, if they are below the speed of light and when they reach the peak speed either you should see nothing (no reflection of data due to cancellation of momentum) or a fixed image (less likely unless photons have a fixed state potential that nobody knows about).

As to molecular vibration, considering there have been experiments done showing quantum teleportation of data (quantum entanglement) it may mean there are reasons for the vibration we dont know about yet, and also since molecules/atoms can apparently be linked over a distance with non-physical contact it may nullify light acting upon the vibration state as something to worry about. This also raises an interesting concept that the data transmitted by light could have a quantum state which is not affected by its speed, which also may imply that similar non-physical forces (gravity, magnetism) have quantum interaction states we do not know of yet..


(*1) I liken light to a rubber super ball. If you bounce if off a stationary object it returns to you with relatively the same speed at which you threw it. If the object is moving away or towards you then the return time is increased or decreased relative to the speed of the object. The object has no change in its own time frame to your action and you have no change in your own, just the data (ball) changes its round trip time.

(*2)The speed of light is relative to the medium it is traveling through, very old news. Secondly the speed of light is just a physical property ascribed to light to help understand it. Relative velocity of your person has no effect on your physical aging nor time, only potentially perceived change by a viewer as the data round trip time to them increases.



Anyways, getting a bit long winded when my point really is that the speed of light is not a constant and only acts at a data transfer medium between subjects. To infer that time change takes place would infer that all movement at or near the speed of light is not time-relative to our plane of existence which would mean a lot of possibly scary things, the least of which is that light is actually from multiple times and we are only experiencing a portion of it.
post #20 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by un-midas touch View Post



As someone for whom I have developed an inordinate amount of respect for simply due to the type and level of intelligence they have exhibited within my line of sight during my affinity towards this site for it's ability to attract a generally more intelligent crowd than than the average (afaik),

I'm almost inclined to believe that you might consider the intended purpose of this experiment as, possibly, affirmational, rather than exploratory. And from this viewpoint (if you should choose to be concessible enough to entertain it), Sherlock could deduce a high possibility of unsubstantiated self-fulfillance of prophecy.

On the other hand, maybe someone with the proper resources and ambition could design an experiment to roughly estimate the capability of an animal to re-input such naturally/hypothetically unprecedented changes such as the lack of gravitation into it's diploidic seedform.

Either way, I'd still assume that skepticism is more prudent than ambition when the continuation of this particular learning exercise commences.

I mean, yea space is a whole new place, but universographically, how much different can our doorstep be from our living room (says the non-astronaut)?
I was trying to say that they appeared to have all the data necessary to determine if space mitigated his telomere-shortening for the length of time in which he is in space -- without diminishing returns for at least a 340 day period. That to me, appears to be something you can definitively say if the astronaut's telomere's returned to pre-flight length after that period (as long as you can measure to an accuracy of at least one year's typical growth -- and they did do that, because they expected to be able to measure a difference between the astronaut's telomere's and his twin brother's. They anticipated that there would be a measurable difference. so we can assume the ability to measure a minimum of one year's average shortening under normal conditions.

All of this only to say that the journalist must have worded it incorrectly when he said "Scott’s telomeres returned to their pre-flight lengths" because if they returned to pre-flight lengths, that would indicate that his telomeres didn't age at all by our most reliable indicator of age --for an entire 340 day period. And that seems like an even more shocking result than the telomeres growing in length while in space. That would give reason to presume that life expectancy can be dramatically improved by inhabiting space.

So I was attempting to say that for those reasons, there's no way that his telomeres actually returned to pre-flight lengths, and the journalist must have improperly worded the findings of the experiment. His telomeres must have returned to pre-flight lengths + 340 days (measurable) regular growth as exampled by his twin brother, meaning that you age at the same rate in space. Pre-flight lengths without 340 days (measureable) regular growth as exampled by his twin brother would indicate that one conventionally known form of aging had been substantially mitigated by inhabiting space -- potentially a huge discovery, once you prove that telomere shortening causes aging and that this result is reproducible.

So yeah, basically I was also saying "skepticism is more prudent" but then going on to describe the magnitude of the journalist's claim about those findings. Meanwhile the actually findings illude my grasp -- I still can't find anything on SciHub and I'm not sure where else to look for the actual measurements so I can't even say that Gizmodo described the experiment incorrectly. Hah, it's a bit frustrated honestly.
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