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VRM on the new AM4 motherboards

post #1 of 2036
Thread Starter 
All getting Hyped for the new Ryzen competition!?

So I was thinking of pre-ordering but the lack of decent VRM sections of most release motherboards seems to be straight up awful if you wanna overclock any unless you want to spend 200$++

I'm a cheapskate enthusiast and want to spend as little as possible for great things. Comparing all the boards available I'm disappointed for what kind of power delivery we will be getting with most boards.

Basically all boards arrive with max 4phase design unless you go up to premium deluxe bling designs that all add cost to the absurd when you only want that last part about VRM better the rest you care not much at all about.

With the leak of the new AMD Ryzen 7 1700 65TDP chip hitting max around 3.8Ghz on the cheaper boards mentioned(most 4-phase and cooking). And topping 4.05Ghz on the premium deluxe boards with the better VRM such as Asus VI hero or Asrock Taichi. I'm torn..

I really don't want to spend as much on the motherboard as the cpu in the end. (the cheap Ryzen 7 1700)

Does anyone know which power designs the various boards have yet?

I'm guessing the cheaper MSI boards have those awful 4-array Nikos per phase. (read bad things about those) Unless you like smoked computers.
The Titanium being the most expensive release board with only 6-phase what it seems like doesn't attract.(though I guess they are the premium set of VRM chips(not any NIKOS there)

The Gigabyte mention low(RSD)on and they appear to be their usual design I guess. Vishay?
They seem to be 1 high, 2 low-side design per phase.
Problem here is they have the same design all they way up until their premium boards such as "Gigabyte X370 GA-AX370-Gaming 5".
All lower tier boards have only 4-phase and only at "gaming 5" do we get a what looks like (8+2/6+4)-phase design for cpu power.
And you can get 2 TWO! of the 4-phase boards for the same price as that Gaming 5... Really?

That lowRDSon 4 phase design I've seen been rated to ~140Watt Max with extra cooling unsinked on much older motherboards. Is it still similar?
My old Am2+ board with this 4 phase design cooks on 1.4volts and needs extra fan or extra heatsinks with a old Phenom 1 at 3Ghz..(what the wattage may now be for that old clunker I still use)

They really are tiering out OC only to the expensive boards aren't they?

So what are you supposed to do? It seems like you need an extra 100$ for the better VRM which means you could actually just buy the 1700X instead and keep the cheap board and have same kind of results but now guaranteed with NO OC?

WARNING: Consider the above INACCURATE!
Below more accurate:
_________________________________________________________________________________
AMD AM4 Motherboard VRM List (german)
https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html
Edited by Nighthog - 4/17/17 at 1:43am
    
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post #2 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post

All getting Hyped for the new Ryzen competition!?

So I was thinking of pre-ordering but the lack of decent VRM sections of most release motherboards seems to be straight up awful if you wanna overclock any unless you want to spend 200$++

Yeah, dude, well said! They should give for free premium motherboards at day-one...
post #3 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post

All getting Hyped for the new Ryzen competition!?

So I was thinking of pre-ordering but the lack of decent VRM sections of most release motherboards seems to be straight up awful if you wanna overclock any unless you want to spend 200$++

I'm a cheapskate enthusiast and want to spend as little as possible for great things. Comparing all the boards available I'm disappointed for what kind of power delivery we will be getting with most boards.

Basically all boards arrive with max 4phase design unless you go up to premium deluxe bling designs that all add cost to the absurd when you only want that last part about VRM better the rest you care not much at all about.

With the leak of the new AMD Ryzen 7 1700 65TDP chip hitting max around 3.8Ghz on the cheaper boards mentioned(most 4-phase and cooking). And topping 4.05Ghz on the premium deluxe boards with the better VRM such as Asus VI hero or Asrock Taichi. I'm torn..

I really don't want to spend as much on the motherboard as the cpu in the end. (the cheap Ryzen 7 1700)

Does anyone know which power designs the various boards have yet?

I'm guessing the cheaper MSI boards have those awful 4-array Nikos per phase. (read bad things about those) Unless you like smoked computers.
The Titanium being the most expensive release board with only 6-phase what it seems like doesn't attract.(though I guess they are the premium set of VRM chips(not any NIKOS there)

The Gigabyte mention low(RSD)on and they appear to be their usual design I guess. Vishay?
They seem to be 1 high, 2 low-side design per phase.
Problem here is they have the same design all they way up until their premium boards such as "Gigabyte X370 GA-AX370-Gaming 5".
All lower tier boards have only 4-phase and only at "gaming 5" do we get a what looks like (8+2/6+4)-phase design for cpu power.
And you can get 2 TWO! of the 4-phase boards for the same price as that Gaming 5... Really?

That lowRDSon 4 phase design I've seen been rated to ~140Watt Max with extra cooling unsinked on much older motherboards. Is it still similar?
My old Am2+ board with this 4 phase design cooks on 1.4volts and needs extra fan or extra heatsinks with a old Phenom 1 at 3Ghz..(what the wattage may now be for that old clunker I still use)

They really are tiering out OC only to the expensive boards aren't they?

So what are you supposed to do? It seems like you need an extra 100$ for the better VRM which means you could actually just buy the 1700X instead and keep the cheap board and have same kind of results but now guaranteed with NO OC?

Well, your speculation on VRM manufacturers is just that...speculation. We really have no idea what parts will go into these boards, and if a 6 phase B350 can spit out 150W safely, you'll see plenty of good OC's. My FX-8350 eats 180W ~1.5V full load, so there's no real NEED for 300W outputs on Ryzen.

I recommend going 6-phase like you want (Gigabyte or something) and immediately swapping out the TIM for some Sarcon or something if you're really worried about thermal load.

Edit: We're not dealing with Bulldozer/Piledriver here. We may find that the Ryzen chips do just fine on heatsinked 6 phase boards.
    
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post #4 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyImperial View Post

Well, your speculation on VRM manufacturers is just that...speculation. We really have no idea what parts will go into these boards, and if a 6 phase B350 can spit out 150W safely, you'll see plenty of good OC's. My FX-8350 eats 180W ~1.5V full load, so there's no real NEED for 300W outputs on Ryzen.

I recommend going 6-phase like you want (Gigabyte or something) and immediately swapping out the TIM for some Sarcon or something if you're really worried about thermal load.

Edit: We're not dealing with Bulldozer/Piledriver here. We may find that the Ryzen chips do just fine on heatsinked 6 phase boards.

100% agree. Coming from 125~220 watt flagship AMD CPUs I think everyone is a little over concerned with power delivery. 65~95 watt CPUs should be a lot easier on VRMs. Can't say for sure how all this will pan out for overclocking. Can't wait to start seeing results though.
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post #5 of 2036
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyImperial View Post

Well, your speculation on VRM manufacturers is just that...speculation. We really have no idea what parts will go into these boards, and if a 6 phase B350 can spit out 150W safely, you'll see plenty of good OC's. My FX-8350 eats 180W ~1.5V full load, so there's no real NEED for 300W outputs on Ryzen.

I recommend going 6-phase like you want (Gigabyte or something) and immediately swapping out the TIM for some Sarcon or something if you're really worried about thermal load.

Edit: We're not dealing with Bulldozer/Piledriver here. We may find that the Ryzen chips do just fine on heatsinked 6 phase boards.


I guess it's not Bulldozer super volcano we are dealing with here but we have no numbers at all for wattage on the Ryzen processors. That makes me a bit worried.

I have a alphacool watercooling kit to transfer so I can cool the cpu no problems with a new bracket so the thing to limit me will be VRM thermals & capability.
I maxed my current MB until I smelt smoke and tuned back a notch and settled. (took some dmg but stable function)

I would have liked a better selection than we got compared what's available in similar prices on older tech.
    
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post #6 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post

I guess it's not Bulldozer super volcano we are dealing with here but we have no numbers at all for wattage on the Ryzen processors. That makes me a bit worried.

I have a alphacool watercooling kit to transfer so I can cool the cpu no problems with a new bracket so the thing to limit me will be VRM thermals & capability.
I maxed my current MB until I smelt smoke and tuned back a notch and settled. (took some dmg but stable function)

I would have liked a better selection than we got compared what's available in similar prices on older tech.

It's okay (and a good idea) to have a healthy level of skepticism.

This thread might interest you:

I linked a specifically interesting post.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/amd-zen-thread-inc-am4-apu-discussion.18665505/page-401#post-30533503
    
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post #7 of 2036
Phases don't mean much, what does is quality and capacity. Even with Intel boards you have to cherry pick and avoid any boards with cost cut VRMs :/
Seems the same with AMD, even more so sometimes. Wait for user reviews and summaries with detailed VRM specs. What kind of FETs, caps, coils, how many phases, digital, analogue, hybrid, ...
You don't have to buy a board over $150 usually but you gotta cherry pick. Sadly some brands are moving up in popularity and volume of sales and join up the crazy Asus in making expensive but not that impressive boards. Underdogs on the other hand often try to bring more for less $$$. MSI used to be hated a few years back, certain people wouldn't even touch it, now after all the gaming crazy and gaming branded GPUs and mobos, it's a hype suddenly.
Edited by JackCY - 2/24/17 at 8:25am
post #8 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukem View Post

100% agree. Coming from 125~220 watt flagship AMD CPUs I think everyone is a little over concerned with power delivery. 65~95 watt CPUs should be a lot easier on VRMs. Can't say for sure how all this will pan out for overclocking. Can't wait to start seeing results though.

not necessarily. Even if the rated wattage is lower, they could still pull the same amount of current or more. And current is what matter with vrms.
thumb.gif
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post #9 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by hojnikb View Post

not necessarily. Even if the rated wattage is lower, they could still pull the same amount of current or more. And current is what matter with vrms.
thumb.gif

So... the current draw is what is high with fx CPUs and that's why they need quality vrms?
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post #10 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by nukem View Post

So... the current draw is what is high with fx CPUs and that's why they need quality vrms?
Pretty much. As you can see from every datasheet out there, vrms are rated for current, not power thumb.gif
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