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VRM on the new AM4 motherboards - Page 2

post #11 of 2923
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyImperial View Post

It's okay (and a good idea) to have a healthy level of skepticism.

This thread might interest you:

I linked a specifically interesting post.

https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/amd-zen-thread-inc-am4-apu-discussion.18665505/page-401#post-30533503
Yeah that is where I found the first indication 4-phase might not cut it. They mention lower tier boards cooking and only the high-end manage a little extra. Though you pay Much for that little extra few Herz.
4.0Ghz seems like a nice round number but seems it may not be plausible on all cores max with 4-phase the low tiers use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Phases don't mean much, what does is quality and capacity. Even with Intel boards you have to cherry pick and avoid any boards with cost cut VRMs :/
Seems the same with AMD, even more so sometimes. Wait for user reviews and summaries with detailed VRM specs. What kind of FETs, caps, coils, how many phases, digital, analogue, hybrid, ...
You don't have to buy a board over $150 usually but you gotta cherry pick. Sadly some brands are moving up in popularity and volume of sales and join up the crazy Asus in making expensive but not that impressive boards. Underdogs on the other hand often try to bring more for less $$$. MSI used to be hated a few years back, certain people wouldn't even touch it, now after all the gaming crazy and gaming branded GPUs and mobos, it's a hype suddenly.

I know there is difference's in quality the question I'm really specifically asking which boards have the quality parts? As we seem to lack in quantity on many ones.
Seems I'll have to be waiting around for that info.
    
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post #12 of 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by hojnikb View Post

Pretty much. As you can see from every datasheet out there, vrms are rated for current, not power thumb.gif

Cool. I know watts=volts x amps, but I assumed the voltage was more the variable. I learn stuff everyday on here lol
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post #13 of 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post

Yeah that is where I found the first indication 4-phase might not cut it. They mention lower tier boards cooking and only the high-end manage a little extra. Though you pay Much for that little extra few Herz.
4.0Ghz seems like a nice round number but seems it may not be plausible on all cores max with 4-phase the low tiers use.
I know there is difference's in quality the question I'm really specifically asking which boards have the quality parts? As we seem to lack in quantity on many ones.
Seems I'll have to be waiting around for that info.

Like 90% of the questions being asked about Ryzen right now can't really be answered. All we know is they are fast at stock speeds, somewhere in Broadwell territory. Oh, and that on liquid nitrogen they are really really fast...like world record fast.
    
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post #14 of 2923
I was just looking through the specs of my current X58 system and my board has a 24 phase VRM. It has been running an overclocked CPU for the past 8 years no problems at all. So I went looking up the current AM4 motherboards from Gigabyte and they have really poor VRM's this time around. What's up with that? I was all set to get a new Gigabyte board but know I'm not so sure. I will wait for reviews to see how they fair.
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post #15 of 2923
I would definitely say that Asrock X370 Taichi , Asrock X370 Fatal1ty Professional (same as Taichi with different coloring and NIC) or ASUS X370 Crosshair VI Hero are the ones to get based on preliminary specifications review. They're the only ones advertising NexFETs used (the CSD87350Q5D normally used is 40A).

Easy math:
Asrock X370 Taichi / Fatal1ty Pro: 16 phases x 40A (hypothetical) = 640 A , assuming that is all for CPU , in reality it might be 6+2 doubled so 12 x 40 = 480A , worst case would be 240A due to doubler
ASUS X370 Crosshair VI Hero : 12 phases x 40A = 480 A , since it's using a doubler worst case would be 240A , it may very well be a 4+2 PWM controller though

The rest of the X370 boards will be a luck of the draw.

For example:
Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 : 6+4 PowIRstage (unknown amperage) ... on par with NexFETs if it's the 40+ amp ones (IR3553 = 40A, IR3556 = 50A, IR3550 / IR3555 = 60A), but it has less total phases
---> assuming IR 3555 = 60 A , max possible for CPU = 6 x 60A = 360A
---> assuming IR 3556 = 50 A , max possible for CPU = 6 x 50A = 300A
---> assuming IR 3553 = 40 A , max possible for CPU = 6 x 40A = 240A
Gigabyte GA-AX370-GAMING 5 : 6+4 PowIRstage (unknown amperage) ... on par with NexFETs if it's the 40+ amp ones (IR3553 = 40A, IR3556 = 50A, IR3550 / IR3555 = 60A), but it has less total phases
---> assuming IR 3555 = 60 A , max possible for CPU = 6 x 60A = 360A
---> assuming IR 3556 = 50 A , max possible for CPU = 6 x 50A = 300A
---> assuming IR 3553 = 40 A , max possible for CPU = 6 x 40A = 240A
" AX370-Gaming 5 features a 6+4 phase power delivery design equipped with 4th gen. IR® digital power controllers and 3rd gen. PowIRstage® ICs featuring Isense technology, which provides more precise current sensing accuracy. This helps evenly distribute the thermal loading between the PowerIRstage® ICs, preventing the overheating of each individual PowerIRstage®, resulting in longer lifespan and better reliability."

Asrock X370 Killer & X370 Fatal1ty Gaming K4 : 12 phases unknown mosfet type & amperage, 45A chokes , 12K black Nichichon capacitors
----> edit, Feb 24: from OCUK it is 8+4

ASUS Prime X370-Pro : 10 unknown phases (allegedly Digital)
MSI X370 Xpower Gaming Titanium: 10 unknown phases , if they're the Fairchild FDMF5823DC like on the X99S MPower then they can do 55A each ; MSI Z170A XPower Gaming Titanium Edition uses 60A IR3555 PowIRStages
MSI X370 Pro Carbon : 10 unknown phases
BIOSTAR X370 RACING GT7: 14 unknown phases

B350 contenders
Asrock B350 Pro4 & AB350 Gaming K4 (6+3 as per https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asrock-ab350-pro4-amd-b350-socket-am4-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-153-ak.html , https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asrock-ab350-gaming-k4-amd-b350-socket-am4-ddr4-atx-motherboard-mb-152-ak.html , https://www.overclockers.co.uk/asrock-ab350m-pro4-amd-b350-socket-am4-ddr4-micro-atx-motherboard-mb-154-ak.html) "Supports 95W Air Cooling"



If you're planning on maxing every clockspeed out, I'd wait for an Asus X370 Crosshair VI Extreme, Gigabyte X370 SOC Force, or Asrock x370 OC Formula. If the Ryzen CPUs are all they claim to be, then those boards should come in the near future if not before Zen+.
Edited by AlphaC - 2/24/17 at 10:46pm
post #16 of 2923
The Biostar GT7 has Digital Power+ which may include ir3555a power stages. Ill be removing the heatsinks once it arrives to confirm. wink.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
 
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post #17 of 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephimports View Post

The Biostar GT7 has Digital Power+ which may include ir3555a power stages. Ill be removing the heatsinks once it arrives to confirm. wink.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Intriguing indeed. Ferrite chokes, powerpaks,  and IR pwm according to the specs available on their page. Not super-alloys and nexfets but it's not bargain-basement d-pak garbage either. I'm looking forward to this board. I've decided to give it a try as Biostar seems to be pushing hard for relevance in the mainstream market once again. I think it will be a pleasant surprise.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

If you're planning on maxing every clockspeed out, I'd wait for an Asus X370 Crosshair VI Extreme, Gigabyte X370 SOC Force, or Asrock x370 OC Formula. If the Ryzen CPUs are all they claim to be, then those boards should come in the near future if not before Zen+.

 

That's why I'm not buying into the Titanium or Hero yet. I feel like MSI and ASUS are gauging interest for high-end options with Ryzen and I'm not going to spend more than I have to this early on. I'll revisit it if and when extreme overclocking boards appear.


Edited by SuperZan - 2/24/17 at 8:09pm
     
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post #18 of 2923
Quote:
Originally Posted by josephimports View Post

The Biostar GT7 has Digital Power+ which may include ir3555a power stages. Ill be removing the heatsinks once it arrives to confirm. wink.gifWarning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

In that picture that's only 10 PowIRStages. That would only put it on par with a Gigabyte Gaming 5

Given that Biostar appears to be using an ITE chip for fans cooling the CPU and case and I'd rather not bother with them.

edit: I didn't notice that picture was from a LGA1151 instead of AM4, so nevermind
Edited by AlphaC - 2/24/17 at 9:24pm
post #19 of 2923

I'm not saying I expect drastic revisions, but to be fair that is a pic from an LGA board so there might be some differences.

     
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post #20 of 2923
About Biostars...Before buying, i would let someone else do the guinea pig, especially if Ryzen pulls a lot of amperes and you guys are interested in overclocking. My one and only recent experience with Biostar, showed that they prefer to cut corners on the VRM.


http://www.overclock.net/t/1612857/i-found-out-why-biostar-isnt-selling

Just a word of caution, because all manufacturers cut somewhere and usually they keep cutting corners at the same area for a long period of time. One other note that i observed yesterday doing a quick browsing. It appears that Asrock has learnt lessons from AM3+ and now advertzises 2Oz copper in the AM4 motherboards. Meaning, no longer thin, overheating PCB, which on its turn was prematurely overheating mosfets, causing to throttle. On another note, MSI still advertizes Military Class 4, but again, once you click on details, you only read about dark caps and chokes. Which leads to suspect that they are, as per tradition, using Nikos mosfets on AM4 too. So, one should await for thorough reviews, especially on an untested new generation of motherboards. Aspiring Gigabyte users should also wait to see how much weirdness will be present in BIOS.

My personal hunch, is that ASUS and Asrock will have the more easygoing motherboards. Asrock used to cut corners on VRM in AM3+, but at least, with the 2oz copper it should behave better and BIOS was always easy. It remains to be seen whether Asrock's love for doublers continues or not. Not overclock king, but it should be an easygoing motherboard. ASUS will probably keep overclocking crown. MSI's UEFI seems much better than in AM3+ too.
Edited by Undervolter - 2/25/17 at 12:06am
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