Originally Posted by chew*
Never claimed im not an ahole.
Quite the contrary. Im a major ahole but i am damn good at what i do.
My personality has no impact on my skill.
Cheaper quality parts. Lets forget about all other vendors and just compare titanium to titanium.
This one can not hold a candle to the rest of them in the vrm department.
This is an undeniable fact.
Msi makes great products. Lightning for example. If they made a lightning fury x and slapped a lightning sticker on a stock ref card i would be complaining about that to.
Lightning moniker means x anything less is disappointing.
Since i have worked with in the past and been one of the few sponsored by multi top tier all at the same time i cant tell you this.
Keeping the status quo stagnates.
Making waves innovates.
Want a better product? Then don't act satisfied with sub par quality.
Also i should add. I have the liberty of knowing behind closed doors info.While i may not be able to comment about it...once you know...kind of hard to forget the info.
I actually have no issue with someone who can be an a-hole. Honestly, I find people who are advanced in a technical field tend to fall into that category more often, and I don't exclude myself.
What bothers me are unsubstantiated claims. Also mixing of terminology - "quality", "sub par", "performance". Do you need a Corvette engine in a VW Bug? I have not argued the Nikkos are the most efficient or "best", but I have made appropriate counter-claims related to their use in this design.
Buildzoid rated a number of AM4 VRM's but misquoted specs. His criteria (125c) is arbitrary and the "better" VRMs actually fail miserably at that temp. They simply aren't designed to run that hot. At lower temps they are much better. At 125c the *Nikkos are much better*. You can't take a single part outside of the design specs and properly consider it. I conceded that 125c was a poor and arbitrary temp, but that was *his* choice. When making a comparison at a given spec you need to be fair and consistent. But then this raised the question of how these parts are evaluated and the criteria being used.
At 50c (give or take) ANY of these VRM's should last forever. MSI obviously has a lot of experience with Nikkos. They had a lot of failures on their Z270 series boards based on some RMA reports. They may have simply decided to step back and design a VRM they *knew* would last while they worked out other issues. I really don't know. But at the price point you and everyone else is correct that they *could* have used any parts they wanted. I doubt they would intentionally under-design their flagship board. They opted for this design for a reason - and it happens to be working quite well. If it continues to achieve top overclocks AND remains reliable AND keeps temps below 40c around idle, low 50's in normal load and only hit 60c under extreme testing, what is the issue? That they could have used more expensive parts? Who the hell cares *if it works as intended*? That has been my point. I would complain *if I or others had actual issues* with the VRMs. If they do fail, I will complain loudly. I don't care for WiFi, dual audio subsystems, or most of that other crap. I simply want a board that will do as I ask of it and will last. Whether it will last remains to be seen. It's simply too early to judge. But if you google 'MSI X370 titanium failure' you just don't get much. "Issues" shows mostly BIOS growing pains. Do the same for any other board...
And as I mentioned, I prefer to provide citations so people don't have to take me at my word. I also prefer to cite specifications or research papers when I can find them, but some topics rely on other reviews - and you and I know those can be suspect and I will usually point that out as well.
People sneer at "Mil Spec", but MSI uses parts they have tested (or claim to at least) for longevity under tough conditions (there are actual Mil Spec guidelines for the ratings they claim to meet). Yes, so far I have to take them at their word. But that was a reason as well. Unless they simply lie, the components and build is intended for 7x24 use under tough conditions for an extended period. It may very well be why they haven't added as many "extras" like WiFi - maybe those ship sets won't cut it. You found your WiFi cuts out with a modest BLCK jump. Will it matter, I already said I don't know. Only time will tell.
I also already stated I think the Titanium is more reasonable around $260-275. Some would claim that is still too pricey, but I do place value on the build quality. Who cares about more layers in a PCB? Maybe those who mount large air coolers? I already mentioned numerous other benefits *with citations*.
If anyone wants to complain, provide something *real* you can demonstrate or cite specific to this board that is an issue. That shouldn't be difficult if there is an issue, should it? If you want to complain about the price, fine. Nothing wrong with that. But beyond that, *show me, don't tell me*.
If you can provide the pin outs for voltage measurement I would be more than happy to take actual reading with my DMM (it's a quality unit). I plan to pick up a laser-targeted IR thermometer to verify temps at multiple *specifically identified* locations - mosfets, chokes, caps, heatsinks, the board to put the temp doubts to bed. I agree the sensors could be off and I don't think any of us can confirm exactly what they are reporting on. I am all for sharing of information and getting to the truth. If temps end up being worse than reported, the truth will come out. If I can verify voltages, then maybe we can put that to rest as well. More information is *good*...
(edited for typos)