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VRM on the new AM4 motherboards - Page 123

post #1221 of 2036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

Keep in mind....i am a brilliant idiot...do as i say not as i do..

What voltage did you have to run?

With my "stable" 4.0Ghz 1.500V settings

Cinebench instantly crashed at 4.1Ghz and managed to render 50% with 4.05Ghz before crash. tongue.gif
    
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post #1222 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by virpz View Post

My bad, 1x 4C09B 2x 4C06B/phase.

OCCT: Lickpack will get your VRM beyond 100ºC'+ with 4GHz thumb.gif

I had some guy trying to teach me on the MSI B350M Gaming Pro doing 4GHz@1.40V with VRMs barely reaching 60ºC.rolleyes.gif People are so delusional now days... it seems like if you stamp "Military Grade Components" and do some nice then everything will be all good. Way to make them believe !
Oh, and I would totally go for a board with dancing unicorns, even if it had only Nikos bellow the VRM's heatsink !

http://i.imgur.com/cSZX3g4.png

There have been reports of the integrated hardware amperage loads being off by ~40% on the core. Measured at the CPU 12v connector someone was getting 150A for CPU, SOC, and VDDR combined and the software monitor reported the CPU VRM alone was pulling 145A by itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthog View Post

What voltage did you have to run?

With my "stable" 4.0Ghz 1.500V settings

Cinebench instantly crashed at 4.1Ghz and managed to render 50% with 4.05Ghz before crash. tongue.gif

1.5v (measured at the socket) is supposedly where degradation starts happening after ~100hrs or so, be careful. thumb.gif
Edited by KarathKasun - 4/30/17 at 1:54am
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post #1223 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Why would you put a R7 on a cheap mATX board and expect max OC's to begin with? It would have no problems at 3.8-3.9 with an R7 or 4+ Ghz with any R5. 80A is enough to pretty much max out any R5 chip.

The three phase boards can comfortably push ~75A in real world scenarios. 15w of heat from a VRM is nothing to dissipate, 20w is still doable with consideration for airflow, and 25w would likely be 24/7 stable with a bit of custom heatsink and some fans. The three phase boards are not intended to be used with R7, they are aimed at R5. And for those SKUs, they are fine for ~4ghz OC's.

Once again, Ryzen is NOTHING like BD when it comes to VRM demand. BD could pull 100A @ STOCK. Most $100 boards could not even support the full fat BD chips at stock on launch. This situation is a massive improvement for the AMD ecosystem compared to their last launch.

Expect max oc's? I can get max oc's? sweet. I will start chasing them instead of trying to find out the boards limitations.

There's no difference between the cheap mATX board vrm and the more expensive atx boards, literally none in the case of many of the b350's and some of them even have the same vrm as their x370 counterparts.
That's not how I want to see the ecosystem differentiate itself.

4 phases doesn't have to mean "good enough" . low cost components with equally unimpressive capabilities not including the low amperage ceiling. Arguing that we should all find it good enough as consumers? Nah. I don't. You get what you pay for when it comes to motherboards.. except I don't seem to have the option to pay for better vrm til at least x370 and not even there for the most part.
post #1224 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by yendor View Post

Expect max oc's? I can get max oc's? sweet. I will start chasing them instead of trying to find out the boards limitations.

There's no difference between the cheap mATX board vrm and the more expensive atx boards, literally none in the case of many of the b350's and some of them even have the same vrm as their x370 counterparts.
That's not how I want to see the ecosystem differentiate itself.

4 phases doesn't have to mean "good enough" . low cost components with equally unimpressive capabilities not including the low amperage ceiling. Arguing that we should all find it good enough as consumers? Nah. I don't. You get what you pay for when it comes to motherboards.. except I don't seem to have the option to pay for better vrm til at least x370 and not even there for the most part.

The mATX boards are mostly 3+2 with ~75A capability. The 4+2 & 4+3 boards look to be good for a bit over 110A. The cheap '6 phase' boards are not much better than the 3 phase boards, if at all because they tend to use even cheaper parts.

If you expect a sub $150 board to ship with $50 of VRM components at a platform launch, you are expecting too much. AM3+ is a good example, there wasn't a single mid-range quality VRM to be had on the 970 chipset until LONG after the initial platform launch. The best 970 launch boards couldn't reliably run the FX-8000 series at stock clocks, and that seems to be where the paranoia about VRMs came from. Well, that and MSI back around the Phenom I launch.

Actually, the only reason 970 chipset boards ever got good VRM's was because a $150 CPU requiring a $200+ motherboard makes no sense. And the FX 8000 series was working its way down into that price range at the time those boards came out.

With the Ryzen CPU's a stout VRM is a luxury, not a necessity. If you want something that is "above and beyond" you are going to have to pay for it because the hardware does not dictate that it be designed that way.

The ASRock X370 Taichi has 16 total phases (6+2 doubled) worth of TI mosfets (4x overspeced on current) and costs around $200. The VRM components alone come out to around $60, which means that $90-$120 of the board price is in the VRM. Even if you cut half the phases out, it would still be a huge portion of the board price with the current positioning of the B350 boards.

The ASUS Prime X370-Pro does exist at the $150 price point. Not sure what they are using for the FETs, but they dont have a history of skimping that bad.
Edited by KarathKasun - 4/30/17 at 3:47am
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post #1225 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

The mATX boards are mostly 3+2 with ~75A capability. The 4+2 & 4+3 boards look to be good for a bit over 110A. The cheap '6 phase' boards are not much better than the 3 phase boards, if at all because they tend to use even cheaper parts.

If you expect a sub $150 board to ship with $50 of VRM components at a platform launch, you are expecting too much. AM3+ is a good example, there wasn't a single mid-range quality VRM to be had on the 970 chipset until LONG after the initial platform launch. The best 970 launch boards couldn't reliably run the FX-8000 series at stock clocks, and that seems to be where the paranoia about VRMs came from. Well, that and MSI back around the Phenom I launch.

Actually, the only reason 970 chipset boards ever got good VRM's was because a $150 CPU requiring a $200+ motherboard makes no sense. And the FX 8000 series was working its way down into that price range at the time those boards came out.

With the Ryzen CPU's a stout VRM is a luxury, not a necessity. If you want something that is "above and beyond" you are going to have to pay for it because the hardware does not dictate that it be designed that way.

The ASRock X370 Taichi has 16 total phases (6+2 doubled) worth of TI mosfets (4x overspeced on current) and costs around $200. The VRM components alone come out to around $60, which means that $90-$120 of the board price is in the VRM. Even if you cut half the phases out, it would still be a huge portion of the board price with the current positioning of the B350 boards.

The ASUS Prime X370-Pro does exist at the $150 price point. Not sure what they are using for the FETs, but they dont have a history of skimping that bad.


ah, I half thought you were having one on.

https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html


Definitely not skimping .

I don't expect unicorn board to be free. Bring beer, pizza, dance. yes, more capable vrm yes. free? nyet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtomatoes View Post

5050 fun zone?

Yes. Biostar , 5050 funzone..
post #1226 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

The mATX boards are mostly 3+2 with ~75A capability. The 4+2 & 4+3 boards look to be good for a bit over 110A. The cheap '6 phase' boards are not much better than the 3 phase boards, if at all because they tend to use even cheaper parts.

If you expect a sub $150 board to ship with $50 of VRM components at a platform launch, you are expecting too much. AM3+ is a good example, there wasn't a single mid-range quality VRM to be had on the 970 chipset until LONG after the initial platform launch. The best 970 launch boards couldn't reliably run the FX-8000 series at stock clocks, and that seems to be where the paranoia about VRMs came from. Well, that and MSI back around the Phenom I launch.

Actually, the only reason 970 chipset boards ever got good VRM's was because a $150 CPU requiring a $200+ motherboard makes no sense. And the FX 8000 series was working its way down into that price range at the time those boards came out.

With the Ryzen CPU's a stout VRM is a luxury, not a necessity. If you want something that is "above and beyond" you are going to have to pay for it because the hardware does not dictate that it be designed that way.

The ASRock X370 Taichi has 16 total phases (6+2 doubled) worth of TI mosfets (4x overspeced on current) and costs around $200. The VRM components alone come out to around $60, which means that $90-$120 of the board price is in the VRM. Even if you cut half the phases out, it would still be a huge portion of the board price with the current positioning of the B350 boards.

The ASUS Prime X370-Pro does exist at the $150 price point. Not sure what they are using for the FETs, but they dont have a history of skimping that bad.

Now you think 120ºC+ at the VRM is fine with 3.8GHz@1.26v - That's what some guys are reporting with fans over VRM on MSI B350 boards.
Myself rather have big money on the VRM instead of having it being put in some egg frying cheapo Nikos and a pretty silk. I think they should have put just a little bit more capable VRM current wise..
That being said, the Taichi is a fantastic board for its price, the GT7 is also great and the Prime X370 is better than most of it's competition. Bios is definitively not among the strong point with any of these boards but also Bios can be improved, weak fets will not.
post #1227 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

-snip-
The ASUS Prime X370-Pro does exist at the $150 price point. Not sure what they are using for the FETs, but they dont have a history of skimping that bad.

they use the same FETs as C6H (from what i read)
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post #1228 of 2036
If the vrm doesn't have a heatsink then they are bound to get hot. I found 100C before using tower cooler and with Wraith style cooler it can cool the vrm to 50C or so. Even after adding a heatsink VRM could go up to 100C easily without direct airflow.

I have PWM set min PWM Temperature of 32C, Min PWM Value 32, PWM Off at 0, PWM Hysteresis of 4C basically... If still too hot reduce PWM Start Temperature or Increase PWM Start Value... Also if you actually use the I/O shield your looking at 20C possibly higher VRM temperature. Hot air can't get out ya know? Has to bounce off the I/O Shield and run up through the rear case intake of air going out as exhaust.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361253756416?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


post #1229 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by sakae48 View Post

they use the same FETs as C6H (from what i read)

The top X370 boards Fet-wise resume
post #1230 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by virpz View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sakae48 View Post

they use the same FETs as C6H (from what i read)

The top X370 boards Fet-wise resume


What is interesting is that the Titanium seems to have cooler VRM temps and has been shown to be more power efficient than the other top end boards.
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