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VRM on the new AM4 motherboards - Page 127

post #1261 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

My m4e has a quality vrm....still cranking away on water with a high oc.

Just saying...quality is for the long haul.

Like I said, 10 years with OC on mid range parts that people had 'problems' with, your argument holds no water. Discretion is a thing. If you tune everything to run within spec longevity will never be a problem. If you blindly push for high overclocks at excessive voltages, knowing that something is likely on the upper edge of its capabilities, you will break something.

I found out the hard way what the limits of the MSI 790GX VRM were, so I changed the setup to be more within spec. And look at that, its just as reliable as the Asus ROG board I have had since 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

Here is example of brutality on many many many fronts...

I could make a list...just because its a single thread does not make it less brutal...its booting this speed...that alone is harsh..

Believe it or not this is taxing on alot of fronts...minus vga stress...

32m%207-41_zpsjajv3li0.jpg

At what socket temps? How long do you expect that CPU to last at 1.6v anyway? Especially as there have been talks of 1.6v leading to rapid degradation. How is that applicable to the use case of nearly everyone else?

It looks like you are running a bench system with the sole purpose of pushing chips till they pop. In which case you have the right board for the task at hand. Id argue that use case is less than 0.5% of the market, and that is why it has not been addressed more widely.
Edited by KarathKasun - 4/30/17 at 4:26pm
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post #1262 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarathKasun View Post

Like I said, 10 years with OC on mid range parts that people had 'problems' with, your argument holds no water. Discretion is a thing. If you tune everything to run within spec longevity will never be a problem. If you blindly push for high overclocks at excessive voltages, knowing that something is likely on its upper edge of its capabilities, you will break something.

I found out the hard way what the limits of the MSI 790GX VRM were, so I changed the setup to be more within spec. And look at that, its just as reliable as the Asus ROG board I have had since 2012.
At what socket temps? How long do you expect that CPU to last at 1.6v anyway? Especially as there have been talks of 1.6v leading to rapid degradation. How is that applicable to the use case of nearly everyone else?

It looks like you are running a bench system with the sole purpose of pushing chips till they pop. In which case you have the right board for the task at hand. Id argue that use case is less than 0.5% of the market, and that is why it has not been addressed more widely.

Well if you have actually been reading thread i had a 1700 at 1.6v for 3 days...plopped it back in a board ran prime...works just fine still.

That said i expect this one will be just fine to..

Regardless i am cold...not on air...i would highly avoid that voltage on air/water...

Which btw msi guys are using 1.575 on water...lol so there goes your use case.

Voltage is there...they will use it..

Tbh its less about voltage used...more about what you run @ x volts...cpu's are like fuses...can and will pop.

Experienced benchers know this...they know what volts to use for what application...could i pop it...sure if that was my goal...i could pop any board or cpu...i know the right combos..

My goal is to find the fine line right now...so far i think i have found it.
Edited by chew* - 4/30/17 at 3:38pm
post #1263 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

Well if you have actually been reading thread i had a 1700 at 1.6 for 3 days...plopped it back in a bpard ran prime...works just fine still.

Regardless i am cold...not on air...i would highly avoid that voltage on air...

I believe that the other 1700 where it was a problem was just over a week, something like 200-300 hours. AFAIK it was below ambient as well.
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post #1264 of 2015
Well maybe it was someone with less experience slamming cinebench through it...

On -40?

Thats just dumb.

Cpus will tell you what they want for voltage...they exhibit certain behaviors. If you ignore the behaviors your either dumb or lack the experience to notice it.

This one in particular likes 1.40 for cinebench...scales well cold (4.4g) does not scale with voltage. Could i force it sure...but im experienced enough to know better...
post #1265 of 2015
My experience lvl fwiw...i have run systems for amd and asus on ln2 vga and cpu...as gaming demos 8 hours straight no issues.

Atlantic city...come up and play on it starcraft demo @ 7 gig.

Boston pax east a 1155 rig @ 5.5 with a 580 on ln2...forget clocks...come up and play dirt 3 demo.

That chip was my own personal chip...it is the one in my m4e still cranking away...oced you bet ya..

Failure is not an option live...and that is why they have requested my services in the past. I do not will not fail live under any circumstances...

And just in case...i always had a ready to pour second system ready to roll. I never ever needed the back up rig..
Edited by chew* - 4/30/17 at 4:18pm
post #1266 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

My experience lvl fwiw...i have run systems for amd and asus on ln2 vga and cpu...as gaming demos 8 hours straight no issues.

Atlantic city...come up and play on it starcraft demo @ 7 gig.

Boston pax east a 1155 rig @ 5.5 with a 580 on ln2...forget clocks...come up and play dirt 3 demo.

That chip was my own personal chip...it is the one in my m4e still cranking away...oced you bet ya..

Failure is not an option live...and that is why they have requested my services in the past. I do not will not fail live under any circumstances...

And just in case...i always had a ready to pour second system ready to roll. I never ever needed the back up rig..

I don't doubt your experience, I just think that because of the nature of what you have access to your priorities are a bit skewed. The number of people who actually need a VRM capable of pushing 1.6v @ 150A+ in order for it to be reliable for them is very small (with Ryzen).

I still mourn the death of DFI honestly. Up until the end they had some of the highest quality boards as far as I am aware. The LP 790FX DK was fairly insane for its price at the time, with its 4+1 that could push 200A+ @ ~1.7v in real world usage. I think I only paid something like $120 for the one I had.
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post #1267 of 2015
Abit,soyo,epox,dfi, even sapphire when they were sort of teamed up with ati chipset division ( grouper and manta ).

All are surely missed except via...via and there over priced chipsets can go pound dirt lol..

But anyway. Imo all b350 vrm are preety weak.. I have been conservative and recommended stock or 3.6 ocs max. Benching 4.0 short burst on the top b350...sure. Stability tests...hell no..

Im less than impressed with some of the x370 as well...carbon..asrock killer and fatality i wont even waste my time.

Gigabyte G5 hot vrm...but can do 3200 STABLE.

Asus prime pro runs cool solid vrm can't do 3200 STABLE without unicorns.

Lose lose..cant win on either one..

I need a GIGASUS prime gaming 5 pro i guess to get what i want in a mainstream x370...
Edited by chew* - 4/30/17 at 4:56pm
post #1268 of 2015
Oh jeez, VIA chipset bugs alone made me dislike their stuff. Only problem was the fact that there was no other real choice for AMD back in the Socket A era.

I actually had an A-Bit K7 RAID (with the revised KT-133 chipset) when that platform was new. Followed by a SOYO Dragon Platinum KT-333, which I wish I still had so I could hang it on a wall. The board itself was nice to look at. biggrin.gif

Oh wow, the SOYO is still in NewEggs archives. link
Edited by KarathKasun - 4/30/17 at 4:56pm
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post #1269 of 2015
I had the abit max and the soyo dragon...both awesome boards.

http://baber.com/motherboards/abit/socket_a/abit_at7_max2.htm

https://goo.gl/images/Ca5CGV

Then nvidia chipset released...i was gungho abit and epox...

Abit choked and died on 939....

Dfi rose to power from 754-939
Edited by chew* - 4/30/17 at 5:10pm
post #1270 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by virpz View Post

That's some good black magic right there. thumb.gif
Back to reality


CROSSHAIR VI HERO Stock 1800X (95W)



AsRock Taichi Stock 1800X (95W)



Biostar X370GT7 Stock 1800X (95W)



CROSSHAIR VI HERO - stock 1700 ( 65W )


MSI X370 Titanium - stock 1700 ( 65W )

Wonder the what the temps on the backside, behind the VRM...

niko fets website http://www.niko-sem.com/in/front tpu.png 203k .png file /bin/home.phtml thumb.gif

Titanium VRM fets
http://products.niko-sem.com/images/product/148231008405971632.pdf
http://www.unikc.com.cn/UploadFile/products/2015710171838-PK616BA_REV1.0_20140220.pdf

They have such a bad reputation that just happens to match their crap thermal vs current characteristics.

The datasheets, review sites, thermal imaging, history happen to paint a totally different picture on the MSI X370 Titanium cheapo $ 0.30 fets.

Why other vendors are not using these jewels on their top X370 and instead are using the TI and IR much more expensive alternatives . rolleyes.gif

A bit of light in the tunnel. Always be skeptical of MB reviews. It's sad to see how bad most motherboard reviews are nowadays. List product specs, unboxing pictures, run random benchmarks which mean nothing (sometimes not even a comparison on the same platform), conclude that the board didn't blow up when powered on, solid 10/10, would get for free again every time. No one even thought to test DRAM scaling until I uploaded some graphs of the scaling. Reviewers got sticks in their AM4 review kits which was among the worst for the platform. Most of them could not get past the 2666 MHz limit. Seriously, no one thought to test other sticks with different DRAM ICs??

Worst as of late, TPU. It's just not possible to give ANY X370 motherboard a 10/10 with the platform in its current state. Sure it might tick all the boxes and come at a good price, but it it flawless? Definitely not. Z270M OC Formula is a very well tuned overclocking board. Not mentioned is huge RMA rates, if you can even find one to purchase. Maximus VIII Extreme was a good board, but not sure I'd give it that high a review myself. It was just too expensive IMO without enough features or innovation to justify it.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/?category=Motherboards&manufacturer=&pp=25&order=score
Edited by elmor - 4/30/17 at 6:18pm
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