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VRM on the new AM4 motherboards - Page 152

post #1511 of 2003


Ignore the stuff in the timing table editor window.
Edited by bardacuda - 5/4/17 at 3:35pm
post #1512 of 2003
Holy hell i cant read any of that even if i dl image
post #1513 of 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

Holy hell i cant read any of that even if i dl image

http://cdn.overclock.net/e/ea/eadf3caa_MemoryCurrentInfo.jpeg
post #1514 of 2003
It's the full 3840 x 1080 image. Shouldn't be a problem.

Right-click > open in new tab. Zoom in.
post #1515 of 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

25 amps 1 volt = 25 watts - 4.23 calculated lost = 20.77 = 83 % Where did I go wrong?

All graphs for NexFets are for 1.3V. Also for 4GHz most people are using 100 - 110A not 150A.

The quick and dirty way would be > 91% efficiency based on NexFET Power block performance on that graph , for 1.3V only.

Efficiency = Power out /power in = (P_in-P_loss)/P_in = P_out / (P_out+P_loss)
For 150A (25A output current *6 phases), 1.4V the loss would be :
below 4W per phase (per graph figure 1) x 1.025 normalization factor (figure 8 for 1.4V) = 4.1W per phase
Power loss for 6 phases = 4.1W x 6 = 24.6W ---> round to 25W
Power out = 1.4V x 150A = 210W

efficiency = 210W/(210+25W) = 0.8936 .... = above 89.3%
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardacuda View Post

What's the downside? I think the CPU clock limit might be related to droop. If SVI 2 is my drooped voltage then I'm losing like 75mV. I'm hoping a new BIOS fixes it. I've already tried LLC 2 and 3 and they're unstable.

Lower switching frequency results in higher potential ripple. However the X370 prime pro has a rather large capacitor bank. It has over 5K uF at the V_core side , albeit 5k hour rated caps.



Some more possible capacitance ratings: Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Gigabyte GA-AB350-Gaming 3: 5KW29 560 6.3V
6 x 560uF= 3,360μF
https://content.hwigroup.net/images/products_xl/386364/gigabyte-ab350-gaming-3.jpg , http://www.creativecomputing.net/images/AB350-Gaming%203-Rev10-SSBB_LED.jpg
Asrock B350 K4 2.5V 820 FX
5x 820 = 4,100μF
http://www.pcdvd.com.tw/showthread.php?t=1126287

It's likely the same for the Asrock B350 Pro4.
Asrock X370 Fatal1ty K4 : 6 x 821 = 4,926 uF <_-- "6ZBJ 821 2.5" black caps
ASUS X370 Prime Pro: 820 x 8 = 6,560uF <-- 5k life rating
Gigabyte K7 / Gaming 5: capacitors at CPU side are 561 , then 561 x 10 = 5,610uF <-- black caps 10K hr rating
X370 Xpower has 8x "M 71D" with 560 and 6.3V on the other line (black)
https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2017/04/10/msi-x370-xpower-gaming-titanium-review/1
560 x 8= 4,480uF
B350 Pro carbon: M71J 560 6.3V (black)
https://asset.msi.com/global/picture/image/feature/mb/Z270/AM4/B350GamingProCarbon//msi-b350_gaming_pro_carbon-quality-hero.jpg
560x7 = 3920uF
B350 Tomahawk: M71R 560 6.3V
https://ockd.es/review-analisis-msi-b350-tomahawk/4/
560x7 = 3920uF
B350 Mortar: 5KW12 560 6.3V
https://asset.msi.com/global/picture/image/feature/mb/Z270/AM4/B350Mortar/msi-b350m_mortar-tuning-hero.png
560x7 = 3920uF

There's 17 capacitors that read 561 on the X370 Taichi. I have no idea how many are split to SOC but if we assume that it's 12+4 VRM and use the proportional amount (12 of 16) that would be either 12 or 13 capacitors. A conservative estimate would be 12 x 561uF = 6732uF.

Biostar GT7 : 5KW50 820 3V
http://www.tweaktown.com/image.php?image=imagescdn.tweaktown.com/content/8/1/8137_20_biostar-x370gt7-motherboard-review_full.jpg
11 capacitors but likely 8 of the 11 are for CPU based on placement.
Assuming 8x 820 = 6560uF which is very respectable

CH VI Hero's picture at http://www.kitguru.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/P1010473.jpg suggests SOC is at the corner

I count 7x of the ones with 561 and 5x of the ones with 101. I'm not sure how the capacitors are split since it's all bunched up.
7x561 would only be 3,927 but if we include 5x101 you get 4,432uF but I don't want to give any wrong information.


Biostar X370 GTN uses 5KX07 820 3V

http://blog.livedoor.jp/wisteriear/archives/1065630332.html
http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/wisteriear/imgs/d/b/db24c971.jpg
so it is likely all 6 for the CPU , 6 x 820 =4,920μF which is very good considering it is ITX

Edited by AlphaC - 5/4/17 at 4:11pm
Workstation stuff
(407 photos)
SpecViewperf 12.0.1
(117 photos)
PGA 1331
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Zen SR7 octocore (Ryzen 7 1700) Overclockable AM4 motherboard X370 To be determined , AMD Vega? 2x8GB DDR4 low-profile or heatsink-less 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 950 Pro / 960 Evo / 960 Pro 256GB or 51... Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD Storage Black or black+white Twin tower air cooler or s... EK Vardar F2-140 140mm, Phanteks PH-F140SP 140m... 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Fractal Design Dynamic GP14 (included with case) Win 10 Pro 64 bit 4K monitor with Freesync EVGA Supernova G3/P2 750W or 850W 
Case
Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Workstation stuff
(407 photos)
SpecViewperf 12.0.1
(117 photos)
PGA 1331
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Zen SR7 octocore (Ryzen 7 1700) Overclockable AM4 motherboard X370 To be determined , AMD Vega? 2x8GB DDR4 low-profile or heatsink-less 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 950 Pro / 960 Evo / 960 Pro 256GB or 51... Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD Storage Black or black+white Twin tower air cooler or s... EK Vardar F2-140 140mm, Phanteks PH-F140SP 140m... 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Fractal Design Dynamic GP14 (included with case) Win 10 Pro 64 bit 4K monitor with Freesync EVGA Supernova G3/P2 750W or 850W 
Case
Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1516 of 2003
Also keep in mind that more capacitance means less efficiency, although this also falls into the minor losses department (along with the losses from adding more phases). Then again, a little here, a little there... it stops being "a little" after a point.

Dunno how AC goes on into calculating exact numbers, I wouldn't. Not to mention that since we rarely get info for the chokes, the results mostly end up out of the window.
post #1517 of 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by bardacuda View Post

It's the full 3840 x 1080 image. Shouldn't be a problem.

Right-click > open in new tab. Zoom in.

Ahh ok I have a identical rated geil set. I will add that to the mix for 2933 testing on x370 pro.
post #1518 of 2003
Think i forgot to post this video up.

3600mhz memory k7 how to ( benching only ) unless you have a unicorn...

https://youtu.be/smjIH-FbW0o
post #1519 of 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsyM4n View Post

Also keep in mind that more capacitance means less efficiency, although this also falls into the minor losses department (along with the losses from adding more phases). Then again, a little here, a little there... it stops being "a little" after a point.

Dunno how AC goes on into calculating exact numbers, I wouldn't. Not to mention that since we rarely get info for the chokes, the results mostly end up out of the window.

If you'd been paying attention then you would know I got it right off TI's specsheet down to the methodology. It's normalized. There's no pure speculation.

They're not exact numbers, they're best-guess estimates that are based on data provided by TI which isn't deceptive. Because TI has electronic engineer help on its site and PSPICE models for each component they cannot make stuff up for their spec sheets because real engineers use depend on those specsheets.

You'd have a point if I calculated switching loss based off rise and fall times and V_GS = 4.5V for the high side and omitted conduction loss (~10% duty cycle so it's low). Or maybe if I omitted switching loss for low side. However, I'm using their datasheet with basis on measured values.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

In actuality I didn't account for operating temperature the 90% efficiency holds up to 120°C. If you're at 70°C junction temp, multiply losses by 0.9 and you push efficiency above 90%.
Edited by AlphaC - 5/4/17 at 4:53pm
Workstation stuff
(407 photos)
SpecViewperf 12.0.1
(117 photos)
PGA 1331
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Zen SR7 octocore (Ryzen 7 1700) Overclockable AM4 motherboard X370 To be determined , AMD Vega? 2x8GB DDR4 low-profile or heatsink-less 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 950 Pro / 960 Evo / 960 Pro 256GB or 51... Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD Storage Black or black+white Twin tower air cooler or s... EK Vardar F2-140 140mm, Phanteks PH-F140SP 140m... 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Fractal Design Dynamic GP14 (included with case) Win 10 Pro 64 bit 4K monitor with Freesync EVGA Supernova G3/P2 750W or 850W 
Case
Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout edition 
  hide details  
Reply
Workstation stuff
(407 photos)
SpecViewperf 12.0.1
(117 photos)
PGA 1331
(13 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Zen SR7 octocore (Ryzen 7 1700) Overclockable AM4 motherboard X370 To be determined , AMD Vega? 2x8GB DDR4 low-profile or heatsink-less 
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingCooling
Samsung 950 Pro / 960 Evo / 960 Pro 256GB or 51... Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD Storage Black or black+white Twin tower air cooler or s... EK Vardar F2-140 140mm, Phanteks PH-F140SP 140m... 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Fractal Design Dynamic GP14 (included with case) Win 10 Pro 64 bit 4K monitor with Freesync EVGA Supernova G3/P2 750W or 850W 
Case
Fractal Design Define R5 Blackout edition 
  hide details  
Reply
post #1520 of 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

If you'd been paying attention then you would know I got it right off TI's specsheet down to the methodology. It's normalized. There's no pure speculation.

They're not exact numbers, they're best-guess estimates that are based on data provided by TI which isn't deceptive. Because TI has electronic engineer help on its site and PSPICE models for each component they cannot make stuff up for their spec sheets because real engineers use depend on those specsheets.

Tss, fine.

PS: If you'd been paying attention you'd know if I did.
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