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VRM on the new AM4 motherboards - Page 97

post #961 of 1989
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Originally Posted by yendor View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

Linky?

It's the review with flir images as additional "proof". Later adopted to "prove" opposing claim. We hates it my precious, filthy Baggins thermal...

Ah ok thanks. I'd really like to see someone who knows how to properly operate quality flir equipment and understands how to interpret those images present a good comparison. Joe reviewer with a cell phone attachment doesn't qualify
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post #962 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraNova View Post

While the bickering can be entertaining at times, it can also get downright redundant. upsidedwnsmiley.gif

On a related note. Is there any in-depth analysis on the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon's VRMs and/or compared it to any other boards? I'm actually more curious as to how it compares to the XPower.

I apologize if I had missed it somewhere.

I haven't looked for one. For straight up components used and then a fun trip through spec sheet land you need look no further than Br0da's list on hardware luxx. Considerable effort has gone into keeping it accurate. OCN users have supplied photos and source information.

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=https://www.hardwareluxx.de/community/f12/am4-mainboard-vrm-liste-1155146.html&prev=search
post #963 of 1989
i keep reading about hardware luxx so that looks like a good site to go to but it's banned the autonomous system number (ASN) my IP address is in from accessing this website. but some how google translate got through. thanks for the link.
post #964 of 1989
So what are the rankings for best VRM setup so far between the high end boards such as MSI X370 Titanium, Asus CH6, Gigabyte K5 and K7, Asrock Taichi and Pro, ASUS Prime?

So hard to know what board to pick, but the most important thing to me would be cool VRM during heavy loads and a strong power delivery overall for securing a long life of the motherboard and CPU.
    
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post #965 of 1989
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Originally Posted by Medusa666 View Post

So what are the rankings for best VRM setup so far between the high end boards such as MSI X370 Titanium, Asus CH6, Gigabyte K5 and K7, Asrock Taichi and Pro, ASUS Prime?

So hard to know what board to pick, but the most important thing to me would be cool VRM during heavy loads and a strong power delivery overall for securing a long life of the motherboard and CPU.

The Taichi and Pro I'd say probably have the best VRM setup at this point the Pro is the pretty much the Taichi with additional features, with the CH6 just a smidgen behind, The K7 is probably on par with the CH6 or very slightly behind it, the K5 I'm not sure, the gaming 5 I believe has the same VRM setup as the K7. The MSI X370 Titanium is dead last by any account at its price point, thanks to its use of NIKOs
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post #966 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa666 View Post

So what are the rankings for best VRM setup so far between the high end boards such as MSI X370 Titanium, Asus CH6, Gigabyte K5 and K7, Asrock Taichi and Pro, ASUS Prime?

So hard to know what board to pick, but the most important thing to me would be cool VRM during heavy loads and a strong power delivery overall for securing a long life of the motherboard and CPU.

If over-built VRM and cool temps are your only criteria, I would have to agree with Zhany and say the Taichi would be the board you want.
post #967 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOldTechGuru View Post

If over-built VRM and cool temps are your only criteria, I would have to agree with Zhany and say the Taichi would be the board you want.
How does it compare for support for the highest speed RAM Zen has so far been shown to be able to handle?

I'm personally still waiting for a board with a hybrid water/air VRM sink.
post #968 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

How does it compare for support for the highest speed RAM Zen has so far been shown to be able to handle?

I'm personally still waiting for a board with a hybrid water/air VRM sink.

I have heard at least some good results on the RAM speed for the Taichi, but all AM4's are still have some issues. If you buy RAM known to perform well on *that* board you should be fine.

Water cooling for the VRM's is overkill for AM4 for most of the X370 boards. You won't come close to heating those up on ANY of the top X370 boards.
post #969 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOldTechGuru View Post

If over-built VRM and cool temps are your only criteria, I would have to agree with Zhany and say the Taichi would be the board you want.
How does it compare for support for the highest speed RAM Zen has so far been shown to be able to handle?

I'm personally still waiting for a board with a hybrid water/air VRM sink.

I really don't think that would be necessary unless you are going to try to push 16 threads on a 4 phase board.
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post #970 of 1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhany View Post

The Taichi and Pro I'd say probably have the best VRM setup at this point the Pro is the pretty much the Taichi with additional features, with the CH6 just a smidgen behind, The K7 is probably on par with the CH6 or very slightly behind it, the K5 I'm not sure, the gaming 5 I believe has the same VRM setup as the K7. The MSI X370 Titanium is dead last by any account at its price point, thanks to its use of NIKOs

^ I have to second this opinion.

For most people at normal 24/7 voltages the difference between the CH VI Hero and Taichi isn't very large. The K7 is only going to lag behind once you push past safe voltages (1.4V or so) because up until the ~25A mark IR3553 are going to be > 90% efficient as long as you cool them. 25A x 6 phases = 150A , while in reality a 4GHz Ryzen 7 consumes roughly 100-110A and Ryzen 5 6 cores about 80A by correlation.

I do have to add : if you are looking to watercool with a monoblock (i.e. not a universal kit or AIO) I think the Crosshair VI Hero will provide you more headroom as far as power.

The Taichi / Fatal1ty Professional have that issue of not getting any vendor support from EK , Bitspower , and others as far as monoblocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraNova View Post

While the bickering can be entertaining at times, it can also get downright redundant. upsidedwnsmiley.gif

On a related note. Is there any in-depth analysis on the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon's VRMs and/or compared it to any other boards? I'm actually more curious as to how it compares to the XPower.

I apologize if I had missed it somewhere.
If it's the same VRM as theorized as the Krait Gaming, then it isn't the greatest but passable. http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8132/msi-x370-krait-gaming-motherboard-review/index10.html

It's 4 phases doubled "the wrong way" without phase interleaving to 8 phases. Meanwhile the Asrock X370 K4 board uses IR3598 doublers to interleave (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8135/asrock-fatal1ty-x370-gaming-k4-motherboard-review/index3.html) so even though it is using worse parts in the review (PK618 instead PK632) it doubles them properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yendor View Post

They are both 6 phases doubled. No edge to taichi on phase count to vcore or soc.
Running at higher temperature assumes the waste heat stays in the components. It's generated sure, but it's not staying there. Titanium seems to be doing better than competition at removing it.
Xpower doesn't have 12 chokes for CPU. It doesn't have 12 high side mosfets for CPU.

Also I think many people are forgetting a higher switching frequency leads to more losses. MSI could easily run the mosfets at half the switching frequency for lower performance but cooler VRM.

A TI CSD87350Q5D NexFET can handle 1.5MHz although data is given for 500kHz (from figure 5 you can normalize for higher f_sw , i.e. 1.1x power loss for 800Mhz and ~1.2x for 1MHz), the IR3553 can do 1MHz (from figure 12 you can normalize vs 400kHz , i.e. 700kHz = 1.05x , 800kHz = 1.1x).

The PWM controller on the MSI board is 300kHz http://en.richtek.com/Products/Vcore/Vcore%20Controller/RT8894A.

Low side losses are largely not dependent on switching frequency but high side losses are.

If you're going for a monoblock what VRM heatsinks the motherboard comes with is irrelevant. Titanium is used for corrosion resistance / anti thermal creep , it has poor thermal conductivity. I think they didn't want to name their motherboard Xpower NICKEL. tongue.gif
Edited by AlphaC - 4/18/17 at 8:23pm
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