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post #971 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

^ I have to second this opinion.

For most people at normal 24/7 voltages the difference between the CH VI Hero and Taichi isn't very large. The K7 is only going to lag behind once you push past safe voltages (1.4V or so) because up until the ~25A mark IR3553 are going to be > 90% efficient as long as you cool them. 25A x 6 phases = 150A , while in reality a 4GHz Ryzen 7 consumes roughly 100-110A and Ryzen 5 6 cores about 80A by correlation.

I do have to add : if you are looking to watercool with a monoblock (i.e. not a universal kit or AIO) I think the Crosshair VI Hero will provide you more headroom as far as power.

The Taichi / Fatal1ty Professional have that issue of not getting any vendor support from EK , Bitspower , and others as far as monoblocks.
Love my K7 but this part could become an issue with Ryzen 2/3.
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post #972 of 2015
Thanks for all the replies guys, so overall considering not only the VRM setup, but also BIOS support and general coverage and functions, the Asus Crosshair 6 would be the best way to go for functionality?

I like the Taichi, but Asrock seems behind ASUS when it comes to general spread and support in the community aswell as official channels.
    
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post #973 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa666 View Post

Thanks for all the replies guys, so overall considering not only the VRM setup, but also BIOS support and general coverage and functions, the Asus Crosshair 6 would be the best way to go for functionality?

I like the Taichi, but Asrock seems behind ASUS when it comes to general spread and support in the community aswell as official channels.

Yes ASUS has been stellar as far as end user support on the forums for new boards although the concern is for RMAs and later on (i.e. after X370 becomes older similar to AM3).
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post #974 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I really don't think that would be necessary unless you are going to try to push 16 threads on a 4 phase board.
It's better than hearing extra noise (and dust cleaning) from a jury-rigged VRM fan or resorting to something silly like the 40mm fan ASUS designed the most recent Sabertooth board to have.

I spent money on a water loop to make use of it, to not have to put up with cumbersome, noisy, and dusty fan cooling solutions. I also think feature parity, particularly in terms of features available on Intel boards since 2013, is important.

It seems silly to worry about fancy VRMs and then not expect good cooling solutions for those VRMs. The AM4 spec is very tight so keeping temps down should be beneficial.
post #975 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhany View Post

The Taichi and Pro I'd say probably have the best VRM setup at this point the Pro is the pretty much the Taichi with additional features, with the CH6 just a smidgen behind, The K7 is probably on par with the CH6 or very slightly behind it, the K5 I'm not sure, the gaming 5 I believe has the same VRM setup as the K7. The MSI X370 Titanium is dead last by any account at its price point, thanks to its use of NIKOs

^ I have to second this opinion.

For most people at normal 24/7 voltages the difference between the CH VI Hero and Taichi isn't very large. The K7 is only going to lag behind once you push past safe voltages (1.4V or so) because up until the ~25A mark IR3553 are going to be > 90% efficient as long as you cool them. 25A x 6 phases = 150A , while in reality a 4GHz Ryzen 7 consumes roughly 100-110A and Ryzen 5 6 cores about 80A by correlation.

I do have to add : if you are looking to watercool with a monoblock (i.e. not a universal kit or AIO) I think the Crosshair VI Hero will provide you more headroom as far as power.

The Taichi / Fatal1ty Professional have that issue of not getting any vendor support from EK , Bitspower , and others as far as monoblocks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuraNova View Post

While the bickering can be entertaining at times, it can also get downright redundant. upsidedwnsmiley.gif

On a related note. Is there any in-depth analysis on the MSI Gaming Pro Carbon's VRMs and/or compared it to any other boards? I'm actually more curious as to how it compares to the XPower.

I apologize if I had missed it somewhere.
If it's the same VRM as theorized as the Krait Gaming, then it isn't the greatest but passable. http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8132/msi-x370-krait-gaming-motherboard-review/index10.html

It's 4 phases doubled "the wrong way" without phase interleaving to 8 phases. Meanwhile the Asrock X370 K4 board uses IR3598 doublers to interleave (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8135/asrock-fatal1ty-x370-gaming-k4-motherboard-review/index3.html) so even though it is using worse parts in the review (PK618 instead PK632) it doubles them properly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yendor View Post

They are both 6 phases doubled. No edge to taichi on phase count to vcore or soc.
Running at higher temperature assumes the waste heat stays in the components. It's generated sure, but it's not staying there. Titanium seems to be doing better than competition at removing it.
Xpower doesn't have 12 chokes for CPU. It doesn't have 12 high side mosfets for CPU.

Also I think many people are forgetting a higher switching frequency leads to more losses. MSI could easily run the mosfets at half the switching frequency for lower performance but cooler VRM.

A TI CSD87350Q5D NexFET can handle 1.5MHz although data is given for 500kHz (from figure 5 you can normalize for higher f_sw , i.e. 1.1x power loss for 800Mhz and ~1.2x for 1MHz), the IR3553 can do 1MHz (from figure 12 you can normalize vs 400kHz , i.e. 700kHz = 1.05x , 800kHz = 1.1x).

The PWM controller on the MSI board is 300kHz http://en.richtek.com/Products/Vcore/Vcore%20Controller/RT8894A.

Low side losses are largely not dependent on switching frequency but high side losses are.

If you're going for a monoblock what VRM heatsinks the motherboard comes with is irrelevant. Titanium is used for corrosion resistance / anti thermal creep , it has poor thermal conductivity. I think they didn't want to name their motherboard Xpower NICKEL. tongue.gif
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Prime blend 4125 mhz 1.464 volts under load VRM's at 49 C.... call it anything you like smile.gif
Would really like to see other boards run the same volts/speeds so we could compare.


Quote:
Originally Posted by superstition222 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I really don't think that would be necessary unless you are going to try to push 16 threads on a 4 phase board.
It's better than hearing extra noise (and dust cleaning) from a jury-rigged VRM fan or resorting to something silly like the 40mm fan ASUS designed the most recent Sabertooth board to have.

I spent money on a water loop to make use of it, to not have to put up with cumbersome, noisy, and dusty fan cooling solutions. I also think feature parity, particularly in terms of features available on Intel boards since 2013, is important.

It seems silly to worry about fancy VRMs and then not expect good cooling solutions for those VRMs. The AM4 spec is very tight so keeping temps down should be beneficial.

To each their own I guess. AM3 +/FX made for some interesting vrm/socket cooling mods didn't it?
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post #976 of 2015
Looks good but the board still uses overpriced VRM components. You can find boards that will perform very well for $100 less.
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post #977 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post

Looks good but the board still uses overpriced VRM components. You can find boards that will perform very well for $100 less.


I wanted an Intel Titanium board for a long time - was very happy to see them have one in AM4 I'd love to see one for the rumored X399 platform but even if it came to fruition , I probably couldnt afford it frown.gif.
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post #978 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by cssorkinman View Post

I wanted an Intel Titanium board for a long time - was very happy to see them have one in AM4 I'd love to see one for the rumored X399 platform but even if it came to fruition , I probably couldnt afford it frown.gif.
I've wanted one as well but I was upset when I found out that it had no BCLK and the VRM components were average. I think it has BCLK now but it tops at around 103 which is nothing. With a name like Titanium, those looks and the high price, I want top everything.
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post #979 of 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by realtomatoes View Post

i keep reading about hardware luxx so that looks like a good site to go to but it's banned the autonomous system number (ASN) my IP address is in from accessing this website.

They've had problems with DDOS in the past so some IP regions might still be banned. Sorry for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaC View Post

Meanwhile the Asrock X370 K4 board uses IR3598 doublers to interleave (http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/8135/asrock-fatal1ty-x370-gaming-k4-motherboard-review/index3.html) so even though it is using worse parts in the review (PK618 instead PK632) it doubles them properly.

I wouldn't expect them to be interleaved.
The IR3598 parts are used as dual drivers so each is fet with two PWM channels from the controller so each puts out a UGATE, a LGATE and a BOOT signal twice which are interleaved.
So what you get are signals for four interleaved phases since there are two IR3598 for the CPU VCC.
ASRock has to control eight phases with these signals so they need to use each output of the drivers twice so it's the same as for the MSI board.
post #980 of 2015
no problem. yeah, figured it was a DDOS thing.
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