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[Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club - Page 1026

post #10251 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

My friend if I use "AMD has pretty much TWO boost clocks, one is boost clock and other xfr" then Intel has ~the same smile.gif .

1. Processor Base Frequency = MACF

2. Max Turbo Frequency = MSCF

3. Intel® Turbo Boost Max Technology 3.0 Frequency = ACXFRC / SCXFRC

For example, for the 1800X SKU the clock configuration is following:

  • 3.6GHz all core frequency (MACF)
  • 4.0GHz single core frequency (MSCF)
  • 3.7GHz maximum all core XFR ceiling (ACXFRC)
  • 4.1GHz maximum single core XFR ceiling (SCXFRC).


For example, for the 1700X SKU the clock configuration is following:

  • 3.4GHz all core frequency (MACF)
  • 3.8GHz single core frequency (MSCF)
  • 3.5GHz maximum all core XFR ceiling (ACXFRC)
  • 3.9GHz maximum single core XFR ceiling (SCXFRC).


For example, for the 1700 SKU the clock configuration is following:

  • 3.0GHz all core frequency (MACF)
  • 3.7GHz single core frequency (MSCF)
  • 3.2GHz maximum all core XFR ceiling (ACXFRC)
  • 3.75GHz maximum single core XFR ceiling (SCXFRC).


Key: MACF: Maximum All Core Frequency, MSCF: Maximum Single Core Frequency, ACXFRC: All Core XFR Ceiling, SCXFRC: Single Core XFR Ceiling.




I know all this haha. But with Intel its pretty much on or off. Example, 4690k even air cooled hits 3.9ghz all cores all the time. Hell i don't even think ive seen my 4690k ever stay at 3.5ghz ever.

You get what I'm saying now? Ryzen is all over the place, advertised as boost clock 3.8 but that didn't happen on water, all cores were 3.5. Its why the sensor skew makes sense, AMD doesnt measure per core, the 20°C offset and 10°C offset based on temps what have you is there for that reason because they don't measure per core. Theyd rather have your fan run faster and keep it cool when it needs to boost, then your fan run slow then ramp up to try and cool (which is harder to do)
    
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post #10252 of 11717
My cpus only know one frequency.

Chewclocka speed.
post #10253 of 11717
Mine too.

Called musfreq!
post #10254 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

I know all this haha. But with Intel its pretty much on or off. Example, 4690k even air cooled hits 3.9ghz all cores all the time. Hell i don't even think ive seen my 4690k ever stay at 3.5ghz ever.

You get what I'm saying now? Ryzen is all over the place, advertised as boost clock 3.8 but that didn't happen on water, all cores were 3.5. Its why the sensor skew makes sense, AMD doesnt measure per core, the 20°C offset and 10°C offset based on temps what have you is there for that reason because they don't measure per core. Theyd rather have your fan run faster and keep it cool when it needs to boost, then your fan run slow then ramp up to try and cool (which is harder to do)

Do not compare any Ryzen to Intel mainstream IMO wink.gif . It is technically server chip IMO wink.gif .

Also be aware how boosting happened on say my i5 4690K was alternated by Asus UEFI options, you could disable Asus MultiCore Enhancement so it follow Intel spec, other vendors may have opted not to show this wink.gif .

They are measuring per core, they have 20 sensors, the SMU would most definitely have access to them. It would also be assessing voltage, power, etc. This is the only way in stock operation core clocking, etc would be adjusted.
Quote:
At stock, Ryzen has all of the power management features enabled and the SMU runs the whole operation and is in charge for everything. These power management features include various power, current and thermal limiters, voltage controllers and power gating features.

I will stop now, as there is enough information on the matter smile.gif .
Edited by gupsterg - 4/27/17 at 4:21am
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post #10255 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

Do not compare any Ryzen to Intel mainstream IMO wink.gif . It is technically server chip IMO wink.gif .

Also be aware how boosting happened on say my i5 4690K was alternated by Asus UEFI options, you could disable Asus MultiCore Enhancement so it follow Intel spec, other vendors may have opted not show this wink.gif .

They are measuring per core, they have 20 sensors, the SMU would most definitely have access to them. It would also be assessing voltage, power, etc. This is the only way in stock operation core clocking, etc would be adjusted.
I will stop now, as there is enough information on the matter smile.gif .

Eh fair enough but they are still both measured differently, if they weren't why would we not have a per core temp sensors on ryzen? Would make more sense even for the offset. Which btw I've never had, both boards on the newest (ish) BIOSes have reported temps correctly.
    
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post #10256 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Eh fair enough but they are still both measured differently, if they weren't why would we not have a per core temp sensors on ryzen? Would make more sense even for the offset. Which btw I've never had, both boards on the newest (ish) BIOSes have reported temps correctly. .

My friend smile.gif .

What make sense to us and them, may that be Intel or AMD or nVidia are 2 different things. What "they" choose and not choose to expose is "their" choice wink.gif . SW can only show what "they" wish to be exposed wink.gif .

I know HBM has a temperature sensor, JDEC PDF has information. AMD either do not implement it or choose not to show it, again discussed with someone who would have dealings with xyz. Then another example I can present is VRAM usage. "We" perceive what "we" see in MSI AB, etc is "actual" usage it is not, link do read the next post on AMD by Mumak.

AMD CBS section on C6H when discussed with someone I was told it should not be there. So think original guidelines to ODMs changed. Then take the example of ProcODT, available on C6H after UEFI 0079, this "value" existed before and was set via "training" but "we" had no option to alter it.

The offset "situation", not disclosed originally in marketing or to reviewers. Later has been, but implementation did exist.

I hope these examples suffice smile.gif . Like I said before many with same board and "X" CPU are pulling their hair out on the "temperature" situation.
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post #10257 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

My friend smile.gif .

What make sense to us and them, may that be Intel or AMD or nVidia are 2 different things. What "they" choose and not choose to expose is "their" choice wink.gif .

I know HBM has a temperature sensor, JDEC PDF has information. AMD either do not implement it or choose not to show it. Then another example I can present is VRAM usage. "We" perceive what "we" see in MSI AB, etc is "actual" usage it is not, link do read the next post on AMD by Mumak.

AMD CBS section on C6H when discussed with someone I was told it should not be there. So think original guidelines to ODMs changed. Then take the example of ProcODT, available on C6H after UEFI 0079, this "value" existed before and was set via "training" but "we" had no option to alter it.

The offset "situation", not disclosed originally in marketing or to reviewers. Later has been, but implementation did exist.

I hope these examples suffice smile.gif . Like I said before many with same board and "X" CPU are pulling their hair out on the "temperature" situation.

Yea i figured memory usage as much when a game shows 2.5gb used/needed and ab showing 3gb haha.

It's always in their hands, but from page one of the ch6 thread the temperature reading was fixed in bios 1001 and up so everyones temps x or non x should work as it should. It was the same for my gigabyte after going to f5c BIOS the temps dropped exactly 20°C under idle and load. It''s why I don't get why people are still having temp issues, my guess is it's still not totally fixed in some cases.

AMD has always "reported" temps differently, not sure why maybe it's easier to implement not sure.
    
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post #10258 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Yea i figured memory usage as much when a game shows 2.5gb used/needed and ab showing 3gb haha.

It's always in their hands, but from page one of the ch6 thread the temperature reading was fixed in bios 1001 and up so everyones temps x or non x should work as it should. It was the same for my gigabyte after going to f5c BIOS the temps dropped exactly 20°C under idle and load. It''s why I don't get why people are still having temp issues, my guess is it's still not totally fixed in some cases.

AMD has always "reported" temps differently, not sure why maybe it's easier to implement not sure.

What was "fixed" was a default value for Sense Mi Skew Offset.
Quote:
Temperature readings (fixed in 1001 and 0038)

Tctl readings can be off on 0902, to fix set Sense MI skew = Enabled and Sense MI offset = 272. Most reliable sensor is the CPU sensor reading from SIO (listed under Crosshair VI Hero in HWInfo64).

Sense MI Skew Offset is a Skew. Not a fixed value of xx°C. It is "Skew" of AMD tCTL readout behavior, which seems to have not only the rotating going on but also it's own "magic" which as I have no voodoo skills it makes no sense to me redface.gif .

Then don't forgot the fan issue peeps have on the C6H is not down to tCTL sensor from CPU. But it is down to how tCTL is read by Super IO Chip, which control fans. See point 2 by Elmor in this post. So as you have read point 2 even using "CPU sensor reading from SIO" is futile in some cases IMO.

The only sensor for all cases on the C6H from what I'm seeing is not being "skew" is CPU Socket from SIO, but it not used by anything from what I have experienced.

I change SIO CPU Sensor mode to only to use tCTL and not do as point 2 in Elmor's post, through an application Elmor posted. Then my fans work as needed wink.gif . This apps needs to be run at OS startup so all is correct. I also have it in Windows Task Scheduler as the mode will reset when mobo "Resume" from "Sleep".

As I have R7 1700 without temp offset then disabling sense mi skew also gets tCTL where it needs to be for me.
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post #10259 of 11717
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

What was "fixed" was a default value for Sense Mi Skew Offset.
Sense MI Skew Offset is a Skew. Not a fixed value of xx°C. It "Skew" AMD tCTL readout behavior, which seems to have not only the rotating going on but also it's own "magic" which as I have no voodoo skills it makes no sense to me redface.gif .

Then don't forgot the fan issue peeps have on the C6H is not down to tCTL sensor from CPU. But it is down to how tCTL is read by Super IO Chip, which control fans. See point 2 by Elmor in this post.

I change SIO mode to only use tCTL through an application Elmor posted. Then my fans work as needed wink.gif . This apps needs to be run at OS startup so all is correct. I also have it in Windows Task Scheduler as the mode will reset when mobo "Resume" from "Sleep".

Yea i saw the post for that, since the only fan i have connected to the mobo is my rear chassis fan and my d5 pump i never saw fan issues ramping up or down (i tend to set my fan speed to a fix speed, guessing on am4 that turns out to be a good thing)

My gpu block is restrictive so i end up having to run the pump at 75% (its inaudible so doesnt matter to me). I don't see why the fans don't read off tctl but makes total sense, guess its not easy to implement it so it reads off tctl. I know that the sio reads 5°C above tctl as well and i guess it would make a pretty big difference if you have a fan curve set. Kind of stupid if you ask me.
    
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post #10260 of 11717
SIO CPU Sensor
Quote:
Mode 1

Temp A = Tctl + 5
Temp B = CPU Socket + 30

If Temp A > Temp B, use Temp B
If Temp A < Temp B, use Temp A
Quote:
Mode 2

None of above from what I have experienced, it just read tCTL and use that.

SIO chip controls fans. So it reads tCTL and does control. If no SIO chip no method for reading tCTL and control of fans.

Yeah, agree it sucks frown.gif .

Yeah, Ryzen platform need "spit & polish".
Edited by gupsterg - 4/27/17 at 5:15am
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Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
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XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
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