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[Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club - Page 895

post #8941 of 11733
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrpeyton View Post

I realise its fun trying to maximise your memory frequency.

I've been there before myself (trying to squeeze every last ounce of juice) from my sticks.

However yesterday I done a little test. (I dropped my memory speed by appox. 1000 MHZ. I ran the Heaven Benchmark 'before' and 'after'. Result: no change.

Isn't memory frequency actually "in affect" really a measure of bandwidth? (x amount of data read in x amount of time)? I can't imagine there are many modern applications that are able to fully saturate that tunnel.

Even 2133MHZ ram has throughput of about 17,000 MB/s (17 GB/s) .(think of it like a tunnel wide enough for 17 GB/s)

Not even your ENTIRE game install is probably 17GB. These days some are. but I still highly doubt the entire thing would all need to be accessed simultaneously!

Graphics on the other hand are different, its not just data. It's graphical. It's a physical entity being produced (light) which your eyes can sense. It does need high throughput, but that's handled by your GPU's memory. (today we often see video ram bandwidth to the likes of 300 GB/s ++

But I say again; unless your ENTIRE game install, ALL needed to be accessed simultaneously, every time, every second you play; you are NEVER going to fully saturate the bandwidth tunnel for system memory. (even if that memory was only set at a pathetic DDR3 level of 800 MHZ. (which is still 6GB/s).

So why is everyone so bent on getting the highest possible memory speed?

For an experiment; I even lowered my RAM to 800 MHZ (bus clock 400 MHZ). Which is still 6 GB/s. Did I see any performance drop: no....

Honestly guys, save your money.

"ramifications" Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
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post #8942 of 11733
Just read something on twitter, figure ask the experience here. Anyone happen to get a higher ram multiplier running stock cpu speeds?
post #8943 of 11733
Okay I watched the video; here's the results:

Mass Affect Andromeda (1080p)
2666 MHZ - 89 FPS
3200 MHZ - 88 FPS
1.2% slower


Crysis
2666 MHZ - 153 FPS
3200 MHZ - 155 FPS
1.2% faster


Watch Dogs 2 (1080p)
2666 MHZ - 76 FPS
3200 MHZ - 78 FPS
2.5% faster


Mafia 3 (1080p)
2666 MHZ - 76 FPS
3200 MHZ - 78 FPS
2.5% faster


Rise of the Tomb Raider (1080p)
2666 MHZ - 82 FPS
3200 MHZ - 86 FPS
4.6% faster


GTA 5 (1080p)
2666 MHZ - 123 FPS
3200 MHZ - 131 FPS
6.1% faster

Battlefield 1 (1080p)
2666 MHZ - 136 FPS
3200 MHZ - 138 FPS
1.4% faster

The benches above (from the video) were also; all done at 1080p. The results at higher resolutions (1440p and 4k) would be even less.

Is it really worth the extra money? Wouldn't that money be better spent on a '3200 MB/s m.2 PCI-E drive' instead or a 500 MB/s SSD? Or a faster graphics card. (the 1080 TI instead of the 1080) which would yield a guaranteed 30% FPS increase?

On the Corsair site; there's 2400 MHZ C14 memory for 100 bux, or 3200 MHZ C14 memory for £264 bux. (or £216 bux for 3200 C16)
Edited by nrpeyton - 4/14/17 at 5:59pm
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post #8944 of 11733
Many actual games (not just benchmarks like Heaven) benefit greatly from the increased infinity fabric speed offered by high(ish) RAM speeds. It isn't just about the bandwidth and latency of the RAM itself.
post #8945 of 11733
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malinkadink View Post

X370 Taichi 2.0 BIOS
3.7GHZ 1700 1.25v
SOC is 1.1v
RAM is 1.37v


Using 3200Mhz CL14 Trident Z RGB kit

Am able to get 2933 14-14-14-34 stable. 3200Mhz doesn't work. Awaiting more BIOS updates.

Try 1.05 max soc for 3200.

1.3 with llc 1 should be fine for stock cooler.

You can try vddp @ 1.0-1.2. May help a bit wink.gif
NOT STANDBY VDDP!
post #8946 of 11733
Ryzen only needs another 6% of optimisations to catch up with intel on IPC.

The problem we have now. Is that 6% turns into 24% when you multiply it by a 4-core gaming scenario (most games don't use more than 4 cores).

There is no big conspiracy, it's actually quite simple. AMD has admitted themselves they are only 6% behind intel on IPC (and they are proud of that figure).

But unfortunately that's also the reason why the i5's and i7's are still winning hands down at gaming. It's NOT due to some "unknown mystery".
It's the fact these chips are already clocked to the bleeding edge of their capability.
And most games don't scale with more than 4 cores.

Intel is still 25% ahead at quad core performance (and we are still seeing 25% FPS increases on i5's and i7's vs Ryzen in most poorly optimised games).

When I say optimisation I only mean games that don't scale with more cores. Unfortunately AMD doesn't have control over that.

I say again, multiply that 6% by 4 cores (on an intel i7 7700k) for example and there you have your 24% lead!

Do we really believe AMD are going to successfully get every game developer to successfully optimise their games to scale with more cores/threads?
To me it still seems like a gamble (for someone like me desperately trying to make a decision).

Edited by nrpeyton - 4/14/17 at 6:18pm
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post #8947 of 11733
The thing is that those numbers are so fringe case that it doesn't really matter in terms of your general gamer/user. I would say that the majority only own 60Hz monitors so does the extra FPS really matter? Nope. The stability of your frames matter more because that's what you'll notice the most. Then you have the 120-144Hz monitors that can utilize the extra frames but a lot of those people will have high(er) end graphics cards and be gaming at 1440p+ which is more GPU bound anyway. Then the remainder who have 120-144Hz,1080p monitors which will be the ones who really notice it the most. Benchmarks are great to see absolute power but for the general day-to-day or enthusiast, the Ryzen will give you an overall better experience. I don't think AMD really cares too much about the fringe, max FPS group which is probably such a small % of buyers.
post #8948 of 11733
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjewz View Post

The thing is that those numbers are so fringe case that it doesn't really matter in terms of your general gamer/user. I would say that the majority only own 60Hz monitors so does the extra FPS really matter? Nope. The stability of your frames matter more because that's what you'll notice the most. Then you have the 120-144Hz monitors that can utilize the extra frames but a lot of those people will have high(er) end graphics cards and be gaming at 1440p+ which is more GPU bound anyway. Then the remainder who have 120-144Hz,1080p monitors which will be the ones who really notice it the most. Benchmarks are great to see absolute power but for the general day-to-day or enthusiast, the Ryzen will give you an overall better experience. I don't think AMD really cares too much about the fringe, max FPS group which is probably such a small % of buyers.

All very good points. (Thanks for your reply).

Why will Ryzen give a better overall experience? (compared to say; a i7 7700k)?
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post #8949 of 11733
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrpeyton View Post

All very good points. (Thanks for your reply).

Why will Ryzen give a better overall experience? (compared to say; a i7 7700k)?
If you're someone who usually multi-tasks and likes to have tabs open and other stuff running while gaming then you'll like Ryzen. Also Ryzen is more stable so you'll have a smoother gaming experience if that matters to you more than just raw FPS. On the plus side, if you go with Ryzen then you have 4 years worth of the AM4 socket whereas the socket for the 7700k is end of life and it has the potential of being phased out if games start being developed to emphasize more cores/threads.

I was playing Wither 3 at 1440p Ultra settings earlier and my 1700 was barely breaking a sweat if that means anything to you.
post #8950 of 11733
Quote:
Originally Posted by webhito View Post

Hey fellas, I got a c6h with my 1800x, wanted to know what turbo speeds should be as my 1800x is not breaking 3.6 on any cores at all.
It does downclock fine however to 2.0.

C6H 1800x, all my cores will see 4.1 at one point or another. The stock core clock is 3.7... something here seems off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nrpeyton View Post

All very good points. (Thanks for your reply).

Why will Ryzen give a better overall experience? (compared to say; a i7 7700k)?

Coming from a 965 P2 x4 Core to a 1800x as a daily driver subjectively the overall experience is considerably smoother. As far as experience with Intel, work issued performance laptops which tend to throttle a lot so no real direct comparison.

So for me its more than just a CPU upgrade, its a generational upgrade. NvME x4 PCI EVO drive, Windows 10 pro, 3200 DDR 4; and retooling my custom loop. (originally built for a 125w 45 nm chip).

I think what you may be getting at is a subtle point of user experience in light duty cycle applications and the platform not really having a perceptible difference (I7 vis R7). So in a way I think it follows that as a consumer / purchaser / enthusiast it is really incumbent on your own use case scenarios to make a purchase on where you see you doing most of your computing.

In a couple weeks when vega drops, I'll be pairing this R7 with a 3440x1440 display with the ole' 1080 off on the side, so the 1080 comparisons and benchmarks means little. Now, where for me Ryzen was the right choice was in virtualization and engineering simulations (electrical) that I do from home. I also run servers for gaming with friends n' family and wanted to do so on the same machine I game on. Ryzen also handles some voxel based games I am tinkering with exceptionally well... but these are going to be niche cases.

Now I have seen the arguments that multi threaded and cored solutions are the path forward 2-3 years out, and I do personally endorse this. However, I cannot suggest buying a high core count computer today just to play games that don't exist yet and won't exist for some time. By then Zen 2.0 will be out in about, and prices will be lower.

At the end of the day, I personally wouldn't suggest an AMD over an Intel product to someone that isn't interested in the tinker factor of the AMD especially not a top tier AMD. Now the enthusiast level user I feel is going to find a lot to like. I suppose I would venture to say that a top tier Ryzen is "like" having a top shelf computer and half, while an I7 7700k is a very focused 2 seat exotic sports car. I will also say that my Ryzen experience has been superior to my Phenom experience as far as working more or less out of the box. For what its worth... thumb.gif
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