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[Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club - Page 917

post #9161 of 11536
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

Im aware of his problem...taichi backplate blocks your ability to measure. I swapped mine to measure mine.

I however mentioned my findings and his reply discredited measuring at socket so....

That said his knowledge dropped a couple points on my credibility meter based on his reply.

Btw engineers i am referring to. Stilt,raja,tin.

So either they are wrong or buildzoid is wrong.

Gonna side with the engineers on this one.

Coming off the regulator to the positive terminal of the electrolytic cap. assuming the trace goes to the pin in question, there is no difference in voltage. If there where 3 caps, 2 schottky, and the load and we measured on the positive side of the cap (given the same biasing) there would be still be no difference. This is the fundamental principle of nodal voltage.

The issue with utilizing a DMM is that it introduces a high resistance in parallel to the circuit, typically a 1 meg precision or semi precision resistor up to about 10 meg (and higher laboratory grade calibrated). Another circuit (inside the DMM) is measuring the current that passed by that resistor into some (usually bjt) network, the resistor utilized like a pull up on the base of the bjt with the AAs or 9V of the dmm supplying the collector voltage with the pass through C-E voltage stepping through some cheapo' eprom/pic circuit on a lookup table then passed to the led display.

One issue with measuring some digital stuff is that the circuits often utilize high impedance terminations.

The higher the impedance of the parallel network under test, the worse the measurement becomes as the effect of having the DMM connected to the circuit is felt. That is that a 1k resistor is going to take most the current when paralleled with a 1 meg resistor (keeping in mind its the current pulled up on the 1 meg resistor in the dmm which is at the base of the bjt), while a 1 meg resistor || with a 1 meg resistor splits the current, assuming an ideal voltage source.

Which this circuit won't behave as.

The takeaway is that a DMM fundamentally changes the load as seen by the supply. The measurement is taken of the current delivery of the internal resistance of the dmm and because its parallel to the circuit under test, is said to be equivalent to the circuit voltage. The problem is that the DMM changes the load as seen by the supply, and the supply in this case is fundamentally a linear control device which reacts via feedback to actually do its job.

The better bet here is to utilize a proper precision calibrated oscilloscope.
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post #9162 of 11536
So pretty much what we can take away from this (Which I already knew the answer to)

oscilloscope > DMM > software

For us plebs just use a DMM. No one in there right mind on this forum is gonna get a oscilloscope just to check there vcore, soc,vddp, vddr etc. Unless you test everything in a lab, then no one will have 100% correct readings. Either way, using a DMM is so much better for accurate readings in this conversation.

Maybe if you're a EE, work in a loco shop like my cousin (lead EE for GE) then yes, he has the equipment that I can use, will I? no, I'm not shooting for world records where I wanna be 0.0000001mV accurate (randomly made up number)

I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios, but you gotta realize what people are doing here.
post #9163 of 11536
Well this is over clocking on a budget 101.

If you really want we can grab a snap on scanner and get nitty gritty. It has a very good graphing dmm plus other goodies built in...

Regardless one can not ignore qualified individuals well known in the community recommendations.

I mean raja works for asus...measuring at caps would make the asus look better....they have a measuring pad...recommend measuring @ socket still....

As it stands its 1.41v with llc 5 (@1.40 in bios) is certainly going to have some droop at 5 gig on ln2...

Me personally if i was doing a review of a board and could not measure socket...i might measure caps make a mental note and it would stop there and i would keep it to myself.

To many people read way to deeply into it blow it out of proportion due to just not knowing any better then its omg...

Just saying...

Why people always bring a lab instrument into the discussion when two people are using a dmm at different points on a board never ceases to amaze me...

Apples to apples all of a sudden becomes a apples to oranges discussion...but neither person is using an orange...
Edited by chew* - 4/17/17 at 9:38pm
post #9164 of 11536
Quote:
Originally Posted by colorfuel View Post

True, but silicone lottery isnt available here. And since I feel entitled to beeing able to run the Ram at its rated 3200Mhz, I'll try another one.

I want this system to be running for the next 4 years at least, so I'm trying again. I see no fault in that.

Then contact the RAM manufacture... All Ryzen CPU's only officially support DDR4 2666. So... you shouldn't feel entitled to 3200 DDR4...

If you want to play again, do it right and buy another CPU.
post #9165 of 11536
I'll be able to tell you tomorrow if the Ram/mobo or the CPU is at fault.
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post #9166 of 11536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by colorfuel View Post

True, but silicone lottery isnt available here. And since I feel entitled to beeing able to run the Ram at its rated 3200Mhz, I'll try another one.

I want this system to be running for the next 4 years at least, so I'm trying again. I see no fault in that.

Then contact the RAM manufacture... All Ryzen CPU's only officially support DDR4 2666. So... you shouldn't feel entitled to 3200 DDR4...

If you want to play again, do it right and buy another CPU.

Agreed. Oc is an oc. And you worded that better then I was thinking to.
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post #9167 of 11536
So you would buy an expensive 3200/cl14 Ram and a just as expensive mobo just to run your cpu at stock settings because it is a bad overclocker?

I may aswell send all the parts back and get a B350 board and 2666 Ram.

I understand its not so nice for amazon or the manufacturer who has to repackage the chip. But this round, I'm buying another 1700X, it will be here tomorrow. And if it performs the same or even less good, well I'll have learned my lesson.
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post #9168 of 11536
Wait you mean I can't be part of the club, even if I am sitting on an 1800x waiting to put my system together? frown.gif

~Ceadder smil3dbd4e4c2e742.gif
 
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post #9169 of 11536
first, overclocking is not a guarantee.
second. you bought the ram . knowing it was OVERCLOCKING. by definition. you are clocking it over what it is DESIGNED to work on.
third. and most importantly- amazon does not pay for it. amd does not pay for it. they like with all increases in cost production, any increase gets passed on to the consumers
they dont just repackage it, if they repackage it at all ( you can not in the u.s. sell something as new if it is used- it is illegal )
you are costing us, the other consumers money, so from my pocket book to yours, thanks. that said the next comment by someone, anyone will be i am full of it, the " rich people" pay for it. to which i will respond with first, - thats why amd is almost bankrupt - but beyond that my final statement will be you obviously have zero clue how any form of business is conducted
Edited by Mega Man - 4/17/17 at 11:01pm
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post #9170 of 11536
I'm Sorry we're having this discussion. I just wanted to be capable of making use of the expensive mobo and Ram I got. I know its a gamble, but still.

Maybe I should keep the old 1700X and sell it as used? Would that be ethically better?
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Fractal R4 Logitech Performance MX 
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Hope (for AMD)
(14 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD 1700X Gigabyte AX-370X-Gaming K7 Sapphire Tri-X 290X new edition G.SKILL Flare X Series 16GB - F4-3200C14D-16GFX 
Hard DriveHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
SAMSUNG SSD 960 EVO 250GB Crucial M4 CT256M4 Crucial CT500BX Western Digital WD10EZEX 
CoolingOSMonitorPower
Thermalright HR-02 Macho Rev.A (BW) Windows 10 Fujitsu P24W-6 IPS be quiet! Straight Power E9 CM 80+Gold 580W 
CaseMouse
Fractal R4 Logitech Performance MX 
  hide details  
Reply
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