Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › [Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

[Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club - Page 919

post #9181 of 11586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soggysilicon View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Coming off the regulator to the positive terminal of the electrolytic cap. assuming the trace goes to the pin in question, there is no difference in voltage. If there where 3 caps, 2 schottky, and the load and we measured on the positive side of the cap (given the same biasing) there would be still be no difference. This is the fundamental principle of nodal voltage.

The issue with utilizing a DMM is that it introduces a high resistance in parallel to the circuit, typically a 1 meg precision or semi precision resistor up to about 10 meg (and higher laboratory grade calibrated). Another circuit (inside the DMM) is measuring the current that passed by that resistor into some (usually bjt) network, the resistor utilized like a pull up on the base of the bjt with the AAs or 9V of the dmm supplying the collector voltage with the pass through C-E voltage stepping through some cheapo' eprom/pic circuit on a lookup table then passed to the led display.

One issue with measuring some digital stuff is that the circuits often utilize high impedance terminations.

The higher the impedance of the parallel network under test, the worse the measurement becomes as the effect of having the DMM connected to the circuit is felt. That is that a 1k resistor is going to take most the current when paralleled with a 1 meg resistor (keeping in mind its the current pulled up on the 1 meg resistor in the dmm which is at the base of the bjt), while a 1 meg resistor || with a 1 meg resistor splits the current, assuming an ideal voltage source.

Which this circuit won't behave as.

The takeaway is that a DMM fundamentally changes the load as seen by the supply. The measurement is taken of the current delivery of the internal resistance of the dmm and because its parallel to the circuit under test, is said to be equivalent to the circuit voltage. The problem is that the DMM changes the load as seen by the supply, and the supply in this case is fundamentally a linear control device which reacts via feedback to actually do its job.

The better bet here is to utilize a proper precision calibrated oscilloscope.

+rep thumb.gif .
Quote:
Originally Posted by savagebunny View Post

So pretty much what we can take away from this (Which I already knew the answer to)

oscilloscope > DMM > software

thumb.gif .
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post

Regardless one can not ignore qualified individuals well known in the community recommendations.

I mean raja works for asus...measuring at caps would make the asus look better....they have a measuring pad...recommend measuring @ socket still....

As it stands its 1.41v with llc 5 (@1.40 in bios) is certainly going to have some droop at 5 gig on ln2...

Me personally if i was doing a review of a board and could not measure socket...i might measure caps make a mental note and it would stop there and i would keep it to myself.

To many people read way to deeply into it blow it out of proportion due to just not knowing any better then its omg...

Just saying...

Why people always bring a lab instrument into the discussion when two people are using a dmm at different points on a board never ceases to amaze me...

Apples to apples all of a sudden becomes a apples to oranges discussion...but neither person is using an orange...

Indeed, socket is best.

Why the "lab instrument" is relevant is DMM is not capturing undershoot/overshoot as oscilloscope does. So when members view someone saying I get x for x LLC on x vcore they may not be getting right "picture".

See Raja@Asus oscilloscope data, is in OP of thread in my sig, section LLC settings on C6H plus some info by The Stilt.

By this post I do not mean to detract any value from what members/experienced OC'ers, etc are sharing, but just highlighting why certain information is better than other information and to aid myself plus others smile.gif .

Just an enthusiast giving his "2c" smile.gif .
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9182 of 11586
Not everyone can afford let alone have access to scopes.

A DMM that introduces 1Mega-Ohm of parallel load will not impact the circuit in a massive way. We're talking about Amperes in the circuit and the DMM will only take Micro-Amperes off that.

But I do agree with the limitation of a DMM. But hey, you only need to have an idea of what the actual Voltage on the components anyway--albeit an Average Value.
post #9183 of 11586
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Not everyone can afford let alone have access to scopes.

Agree, this is why the info from Raja@ASUS / The Stilt is best to ref.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

But I do agree with the limitation of a DMM. But hey, you only need to have an idea of what the actual Voltage on the components anyway--albeit an Average Value.

True.

All I'm highlighting though is the "LL effect" aspect is what "we" miss out on from DMM/SW (plus other aspects of accuracy in a way), due to their limitations. So as long as "we" don't think "ahh I need LLC xxx, because I get xxx vcore".

Just like stability testing, I feel LLC is another aspect that "we" will agree/disagree on as to what "we" should follow.

Discussing using your post for "our" discussion and not aiming directly at you mate smile.gif .
Edited by gupsterg - 4/18/17 at 3:24am
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9184 of 11586
I understand.

I should've noted/added that only the methodologies vary from person to person and what he has access to. thumb.gif

i.e.
Measuring from point A is different from measuring at point B.

It really has to go down to who has access to the details and the right tools for the job. thumb.gif

I know Buildzoid knows what he is doing but yeah, you get the idea. wink.gif
post #9185 of 11586
I had discussions via PM, etc with Buildzoid, so is a guy I ref smile.gif and enjoying "participating" with wink.gif .

Now the league the others are in for knowledge IMO far surpasses his and I do not mean to say I have anymore than Buildzoid wink.gif . And by no means being defamatory to the guy smile.gif , through all the time I've been reading his blog, etc he is furthering himself and aspiring to the "next level" wink.gif . So someone to "watch" wink.gif .

I just luv the "casual" narrative of his videos and unpolished footage compared with other YT peeps smile.gif .
Edited by gupsterg - 4/18/17 at 3:52am
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9186 of 11586
Well, the other YT guy he hangs out with now, is just on another level of sort. biggrin.gif

Would you agree?
post #9187 of 11586
In the Biostar X370GT7 review techschpot claims it comes with a 240GB M2 ssd, is it true? Or maybe Biostar inclued it just in their review sample?
PURPLEHAZE
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen R7 1700 Asrock X370 Taichi Palit GTX 1080 Super JetStream 16GB KFA2 HOF 3600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
2x Crucial MX300 750GB Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Iiyama G-Master Red Eagle GB2488HSU-B2 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Lux MX Red RGB Corsair RM750x Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Logitech MX-Master 
  hide details  
Reply
PURPLEHAZE
(13 items)
 
  
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD Ryzen R7 1700 Asrock X370 Taichi Palit GTX 1080 Super JetStream 16GB KFA2 HOF 3600MHz 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
2x Crucial MX300 750GB Corsair H110i GT Windows 10 Pro 64 bit Iiyama G-Master Red Eagle GB2488HSU-B2 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Corsair K70 Lux MX Red RGB Corsair RM750x Phanteks Enthoo Pro M Logitech MX-Master 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9188 of 11586
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Well, the other YT guy he hangs out with now, is just on another level of sort. biggrin.gif

Would you agree?

True wink.gif . I think they use the same hairdresser as well tongue.gif .

Sponsorship incoming "L'Oreal Overclockers edition" ".... as we're worth it" tongue.gif.
Edited by gupsterg - 4/18/17 at 4:07am
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
XPS - R7 1700
(14 items)
 
XPS - i5 4690K
(12 items)
 
XPS - Q6600
(8 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 7 1700 Asus Crosshair VI Hero Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 G.Skill Trident Z 2x 8GB 3200MHz C14 
Hard DriveCoolingCoolingCooling
Samsung Evo 840 ThermalRight Archon IB-E X2 + 2x TY143 ThermalRight TY-143 2x front case intake Arctic Cooling F12 + 2x F9 as rear case exhaust 
OSMonitorKeyboardPower
Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 Pro x64 Asus MG279Q Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 
CaseMouse
SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i5 4690K@4.9GHz 1.255V Asus Maximus VII Ranger Sapphire Fury X@1145/545 HyperX Savage 2x8GB 2400MHz C11 
Hard DriveCoolingOSMonitor
Samsung Evo 840 TR Archon SB-E X2 Win 7 Pro x64 / Win 10 x64 Asus MG279Q 
KeyboardPowerCaseMouse
Cherry MX-Board 3.0 Cooler Master V850 SilverStone TJ06 Logitech G700S 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Q6600 G0 Asus P5K Premium Black Pearl Sapphire Toxic HD5850 Corsair Dominator 4GB 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Crucial MX 100 256GB TR TRUE Rev.A Win 7 Pro x64 Cooler Master V650 
  hide details  
Reply
post #9189 of 11586
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv8000 View Post

Just to clear this up...

In terms of overall power delivery quality: Taichi, F. pro and The CH6 are roughly equivalent (CH6 being the best) > K7=G5 > possibly the biostar GT7? > Xpower redface.gif

I would like to know why you think the C6H is the best at power delivery? I think the C6H has the best bclk OC and bench potential right now, but the VRM config is maybe not the best? Not that it will matter much for Ryzen . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowxaero View Post

According to Billzoid the Taichi board is the best am4 board available right now haha. On a side note he found some interesting things with LLC on the Taichi board.

Apparently LLC2 well all the LLC above 5 heavily overvolt the CPU to absurd voltages. So much as to say anything above LLC5 are unusable.

He also notes software is not outputting the correct voltage or amps the VRMs are feeding the chip and is off by some 40%.

https://youtu.be/_ic5d5qAhBU

I'm . . . not sure if that's really true? In my experience LLC3 holds voltages stable, though maybe I'm being too reliant on software to monitor this phenomenon. Hmm, wonder if I can test this passively using my Kill-a-Watt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

So how am I doing?

http://valid.x86.fr/77qv8d

Pretty good. Get those RAM speeds up there, you have more performance on the table.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

I am lovin' this K7!!

That voltage, ugh.
post #9190 of 11586
Quote:
Originally Posted by bloot View Post

In the Biostar X370GT7 review techschpot claims it comes with a 240GB M2 ssd, is it true? Or maybe Biostar inclued it just in their review sample?

I heard it's a SATA M.2 though. So unless you need one or has a slot that accepts one. wink.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

True wink.gif . I think they use the same hairdresser as well tongue.gif .

Sponsorship incoming "L'Oreal Overclockers edition" ".... as we're worth it" tongue.gif.

Ohh you.. tongue.gif


The Man-Crush Duo. So they thought.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drmrlordx View Post


That voltage, ugh.

It's not subjected to a serious load with Superposition. Most I saw was 88% on one or two threads. thumb.gif
Nothing to worry about. VRMs didn't even flex.

Easier than CPU-Z Benchmark. lol
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: AMD CPUs
Overclock.net › Forums › AMD › AMD CPUs › [Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club