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[Official] RYZEN 7 1800X | 1700X |1700 Owners Club & 4GHz+ Club - Page 946

post #9451 of 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbtk View Post

Difficult to accept the answer when I had never heard it before today, in spite of spending quite a lot of time here.

That's interesting.

thanks

Im sorry i would have assumed you read my review on launch day ( ryzen return of the jedi ).

I stand corrected.

 

Have you got a link to it so I can read it?

post #9452 of 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbtk View Post

Have you got a link to it so I can read it?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?293130-Ryzen-Return-of-the-Jedi

Post #4 is where i explained the sub timings/strap tuning and how it measures up performance wise.

This has always been doable on AMD but was not necessary when we could just tighten up subs manually.

In simple terms there are two ways to get significant gains on AMD.

Infinity fabric higher.

Forcing sub timings lower.

In a perfect world...amd unlinks fabric from memory gives us a divider and unlocks sub timings.

In our current world we need ref clock boards creativity and a lot of fine tuning voltages to get stable.

120 is probably max 24/7 you want to run. Unsure about k7 yet... but taichi and asus can do it rather easy...
Edited by chew* - 4/20/17 at 6:38pm
post #9453 of 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbtk View Post

I have been working away trying to work out why Ryzen's CPU+GPU under load performance is not as good as it could be. A while a go I posted a number of things that disputed the windows scheduler and thread switching as being the primary cause of the performance issue only to be told I was an Idiot, Particularly by the people over at Anandtech forum.

I was one of the initial people who pointed out that bandwidth to the memory and PCIe links on the chip was a product of the Ram frequency. It has certainly helped improve things a bit but not as well as I would like and not enough to say that the speed is the entire story. The 70-90ns latency, compared to 50 in an Intel platform still concerned me.

I have been trying to determine if my next observation was in my imagination or If i had substance. It has been tricky as most people have tried to shy away from 32GB systems because they assumed that the slower frequency would be detrimental to performance. 16GB systems with the 3200Mhz Ram struggle to get 8000 in the Timespy CPU test. Your post with the 3 different time spy tests and increasing memory frequency, I think, has just confirmed what I have been searching for. I noticed that some of the combined best scores in Firestrike were being made with 32GB machines, initially with 2x8GB systems and more lately 2 x 16GB systems even if the ram was only clocked at 2400 or 2666Mhz

While it seems that faster ram helps, The major part of Ryzen's secret to getting close to Intel like "gaming" performance and working around the memory latency issues seems to be by increasing the Ram interleaving. The only way that can be achieved is to either use fast dual rank memory 2x16GB sticks or 4x8GB sticks. The increased interleaving is reducing the number of cycles the CPU has to wait between the request and returned of data from memory due to Ryzen's inherent Latency. The frequency helps but does not appear to help as much as the ability for the CPU to access more highly interleaved memory.  

We need a bit more testing to confirm but I suspect that 2x16GB ram would be have better performance potential than 4x8GB as it should put less load on the memory controller.

This has actually been tested and YES you are actually right in your assumption, (translate to english) https://www.golem.de/news/ram-overclocking-getestet-ryzen-profitiert-von-ddr4-3200-und-dual-rank-1704-127262.html

Long story short :
Edited by Malorne - 4/20/17 at 6:41pm
post #9454 of 11486
I saw no major difference when both were run @ 3200 14-14-14-34 2x8 4x8 2x16.

Nothing that could not be written off as benchmark variance.

Huge diff with 3200 divider vs 120 ref clock and 2667 divider though.

I have spent tons of time on this...

I also...am not a review site promoting a product.

No one is going to run 16-16-16 SR @ 2667 in the real world...
Edited by chew* - 4/20/17 at 6:53pm
post #9455 of 11486
So get this, i updated the bios, despite the bios telling me i had the latest version, and it gave me a bunch of new options for the memory. I now have "test it" features for various settings that just pre programs the bios to whatever these test its are set to, ive managed to get up to 2667 @ 14-16-16-34 but thats it so far, cant get a post on 2933.
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post #9456 of 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawne32 View Post

So get this, i updated the bios, despite the bios telling me i had the latest version, and it gave me a bunch of new options for the memory. I now have "test it" features for various settings that just pre programs the bios to whatever these test its are set to, ive managed to get up to 2667 @ 14-16-16-34 but thats it so far, cant get a post on 2933.

That's better. 2933 probably won't happen without manually changing timings til after may bios updates are finished.
post #9457 of 11486
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post #9458 of 11486
How long should I run Aida64 stability test for when checking for OC stability?
post #9459 of 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by chew* View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtbtk View Post

Have you got a link to it so I can read it?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?293130-Ryzen-Return-of-the-Jedi

Post #4 is where i explained the sub timings/strap tuning and how it measures up performance wise.

This has always been doable on AMD but was not necessary when we could just tighten up subs manually.

In simple terms there are two ways to get significant gains on AMD.

Infinity fabric higher.

Forcing sub timings lower.

In a perfect world...amd unlinks fabric from memory gives us a divider and unlocks sub timings.

In our current world we need ref clock boards creativity and a lot of fine tuning voltages to get stable.

120 is probably max 24/7 you want to run. Unsure about k7 yet... but taichi and asus can do it rather easy...

I am aware of the Infinity fabric bandwidth. Wasn't aware that the secondary timings were tighter at a lower divider and I have not touched an AMD CPU since Thunderbird and working in IT for a bank so I could not be bothered fiddling with that machine in my spare time.

 

How is the latency? Openning the secondary memory settings in the UEFI should be an achievable start

 

I'll take a look. Thanks


Edited by gtbtk - 4/20/17 at 7:52pm
post #9460 of 11486
Quote:
Originally Posted by yendor View Post

That's better. 2933 probably won't happen without manually changing timings til after may bios updates are finished.

I just hope it does get better, i specifically went with 8GB of the faster memory based on reviews about performance, rather than 16gb of the slower stuff. So running at the lower speed just because of incompatibility is irritating.
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