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TV people - on a budget, 1080 or 4k?

3K views 57 replies 7 participants last post by  brucethemoose 
#1 ·
Morning.. I just found out my nephew managed to mangle the lcd in his LG 32" monitor
weirdsmiley.gif
so I'm going to be dropping off my current TV to my brother and on the hunt for a replacement (40" 1080P Sony Bravia.. Think paid around $299 for this in 2014).

I don't actually watch 'TV', I used the Bravia for movies over PC and slower paced PC games that I play on the controller.. and sometimes I play games on my old playstation 2. I didn't plan on replacing this until I had the money for a good 4k display since I don't upgrade regularly at all, and right now I'm looking at a budget of about $350 (USD) MAX - would prefer $299.. So my question is:

With a budget this low, should I be looking at a new 1080P TV or an entry level 4k? I'd love to get 4k, but if all the TVs in my range are garbage then I wont and it will be a while before I can swing enough money to get something better. It also needs to at least have a reasonable response time suitable for use as a PC monitor and games like GTA, TW3, Borderlands, etc... I have the 144hz panels for the fast paced stuff.

Size range I'd prefer is 40-43 inches if anybody wants to post links, ignore the GPUs in my systems, I understand that I'll only get 4k/30hz with the 280x...

So what's the best poor mans TV? Oh, and I'm willing to take refurbished if it's from a somewhat reputable source like Newegg.
 
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#2 ·
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#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post

For that budget a quick look at Amazon.com gets you one model Scepter 40" 4K 60Hz $249:

https://www.amazon.com/Sceptre-40-Ultra-2160p-U405CV-U/dp/B01NAJ84Y5/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1488135890&sr=8-2&keywords=4k+40%22

For that price, meh I'd take a chance on it if I was in the market.
Hey thanks I looked over Amazon before but didn't notice this one. This one shows that it has HDMI 2.0 & HDCP 2.2 which is nice, some of the other cheapos didn't seem to actually support 60hz inputs at 4k.

I'll check around for some reviews because I'm worried about the refresh rate and see if I can turn something up.

I know what you mean about taking a chance for $250 but I'd like it to last a few years, gonna shop around but maybe I'll get it
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#4 ·
No prob, good luck!
 
#5 ·
Are there any other TVs I should know about within my price range before I give the Sceptre a shot? I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical but the reviews from walmart are pretty good, I see people use it with their PC and don't mention lag issues. One review about artifact at 4k/60hz in games and some dead pixel reviews but besides that it seems legit.

So I can really get a good 4k TV for $250?!
 
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#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

Are there any other TVs I should know about within my price range before I give the Sceptre a shot? I have to admit I'm a bit skeptical but the reviews from walmart are pretty good, I see people use it with their PC and don't mention lag issues. One review about artifact at 4k/60hz in games and some dead pixel reviews but besides that it seems legit.

So I can really get a good 4k TV for $250?!
On black friday I got this guy for $299.

Seems like the ideal TV for you as well. Entry level 4k, HDR (not legitimate HDR, I still don't know much about different types), 4k @ 60hz through one of the HDMI's, Smart TV features that are decent, WIFI and Ethernet. At the $449 it's a pretty decent deal, at $299 it was a no brainer, I recommend it especially if you can find it cheaply.
 
#7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurdueBoy View Post

On black friday I got this guy for $299.

Seems like the ideal TV for you as well. Entry level 4k, HDR (not legitimate HDR, I still don't know much about different types), 4k @ 60hz through one of the HDMI's, Smart TV features that are decent, WIFI and Ethernet. At the $449 it's a pretty decent deal, at $299 it was a no brainer, I recommend it especially if you can find it cheaply.
Thanks Purdue, that one looks really nice but yeah over my budget for now. Do these go on sale often? I can just use one of my monitors in my TVs place for now and wait a bit. I don't care too much for HDR, to me it's just another feature before the next feature everyone wishes they had comes around
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.. Though I do like turning HDR on in the old Serious Sam games
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I don't know much about the big consumer holidays even though I'm born and raised in the US.. Might as well have grown up under a rock. Not sure I can make it to thanksgiving though
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. I don't see any sales on TVs right now, sometimes they show up in my newegg email deals but I tend to ignore them
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

Thanks Purdue, that one looks really nice but yeah over my budget for now. Do these go on sale often? I can just use one of my monitors in my TVs place for now and wait a bit. I don't care too much for HDR, to me it's just another feature before the next feature everyone wishes they had comes around
tongue.gif
.. Though I do like turning HDR on in the old Serious Sam games
biggrin.gif


I don't know much about the big consumer holidays even though I'm born and raised in the US.. Might as well have grown up under a rock. Not sure I can make it to thanksgiving though
biggrin.gif
. I don't see any sales on TVs right now, sometimes they show up in my newegg email deals but I tend to ignore them
I forgot to mention that it is 4:4:4 chroma and not one of the lower ones. Another confusing topic for me, but from what I understand you want 4:4:4 especially if you're getting your image from a PC.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurdueBoy View Post

I forgot to mention that it is 4:4:4 chroma and not one of the lower ones. Another confusing topic for me, but from what I understand you want 4:4:4 especially if you're getting your image from a PC.
Ah good catch I didn't even consider that. 4:4:4 basically just means NO chroma subsampling (basically encoding), anything less i.e. 4:2:2 and it's just a trick to reduce the amount of pixel data to produce an image though 4:2:2 may not make a noticeable difference to a mere mortal. I'm not a genius on the topic but it's something I went over while I was writing a 3d soft engine.

Not sure I care too much for my use but would prefer 4:4:4 just to have it.

I do like that TV though, I bookmarked it from a few sources hoping for a sale. I don't know of any other sales between now and July 4 that may happen though
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#11 ·
Nevermind, I found this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1285817-REG/samsung_un40ku6290fxza_ku6290_series_40_class_uhd_smart.html

$25 over your budget, but it's worth it IMHO.

'HDR" is very different than the HDR effect you get in games. At the very least, it means a brighter backlight + 10 bit input, both of which are things you really want.

As for subsampling... yeah, 4:4:4 will look better. Even local 4:2:0 video (aka a 4k black/white image with 1080p color) will look better on a 4:4:4 TV, as you can upscale the 1080p color to 4k with MadVR or something.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Are you willing to buy used or refurb?
Sure am, but would prefer it be through a trusty retailer. I buy refurb stuff from Newegg regularly. Would like to at least know I'll be able to return it if it comes with dead pixels and is really bad
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Nevermind, I found this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1285817-REG/samsung_un40ku6290fxza_ku6290_series_40_class_uhd_smart.html

$25 over your budget, but it's worth it IMHO.

'HDR" is very different than the HDR effect you get in games. At the very least, it means a brighter backlight + 10 bit input, both of which are things you really want.

As for subsampling... yeah, 4:4:4 will look better. Even local 4:2:0 video (aka a 4k black/white image with 1080p color) will look better on a 4:4:4 TV, as you can upscale the 1080p color to 4k with MadVR or something.
Wow they are putting 10 bit panels in TVs? I think I could swing $377 if it's really worth it, just have to go without a tv a little longer. I get linked to this bhphotovideo alot, I'm guessing this is a trust worthy retailer?
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Nevermind, I found this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1285817-REG/samsung_un40ku6290fxza_ku6290_series_40_class_uhd_smart.html

$25 over your budget, but it's worth it IMHO.

'HDR" is very different than the HDR effect you get in games. At the very least, it means a brighter backlight + 10 bit input, both of which are things you really want.

As for subsampling... yeah, 4:4:4 will look better. Even local 4:2:0 video (aka a 4k black/white image with 1080p color) will look better on a 4:4:4 TV, as you can upscale the 1080p color to 4k with MadVR or something.
Wow they are putting 10 bit panels in TVs? I think I could swing $377 if it's really worth it, just have to go without a tv a little longer. I get linked to this bhphotovideo alot, I'm guessing this is a trust worthy retailer?
Yup, they are. B&H has been around for awhile too.

"HDR" is supposed to mean a high-gamut RGB or quantum dot backlight (aka really vivid colors), a VA panel, local backlight dimming or an OLED (for very bright whites and dark blacks), 10-bit or 12-bit input (less color banding), as well as a separate mode for true HDR content.

Now, I don't think you can get all that for $375
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. But at the very least you get 10-bit input and a bright backlight for HDR videos and games, which is much better than nothing.

If you get it, be sure to configure MadVR for watching stuff on a 10-bit panel. Come back, and I can help with the settings
smile.gif
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Nevermind, I found this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1285817-REG/samsung_un40ku6290fxza_ku6290_series_40_class_uhd_smart.html

$25 over your budget, but it's worth it IMHO.

'HDR" is very different than the HDR effect you get in games. At the very least, it means a brighter backlight + 10 bit input, both of which are things you really want.

As for subsampling... yeah, 4:4:4 will look better. Even local 4:2:0 video (aka a 4k black/white image with 1080p color) will look better on a 4:4:4 TV, as you can upscale the 1080p color to 4k with MadVR or something.
Yah HDR refers to the color range that is able to be reproduced by the screen or something. From what I understand Samsungs TVs use HDR10 (10bit) and not Dolby HDR (12bit) and these lower end Samsungs (6XXX series) don't actually meet the HDR10 standard, you'd have to go with an 8XXX series to get that.
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurdueBoy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Nevermind, I found this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1285817-REG/samsung_un40ku6290fxza_ku6290_series_40_class_uhd_smart.html

$25 over your budget, but it's worth it IMHO.

'HDR" is very different than the HDR effect you get in games. At the very least, it means a brighter backlight + 10 bit input, both of which are things you really want.

As for subsampling... yeah, 4:4:4 will look better. Even local 4:2:0 video (aka a 4k black/white image with 1080p color) will look better on a 4:4:4 TV, as you can upscale the 1080p color to 4k with MadVR or something.
Yah HDR refers to the color range that is able to be reproduced by the screen or something. From what I understand Samsungs TVs use HDR10 (10bit) and not Dolby HDR (12bit) and these lower end Samsungs (6XXX series) don't actually meet the HDR10 standard, you'd have to go with an 8XXX series to get that.
It's more than that.

The sun on an HDR display, for example, will actually blow your eyes out, whereas it would look just like a white car right below it on an SDR display. The night sky will have bright stars that actually look like stars, + none of those nasty black splotches/rings you get on a normal TV. The deeper colors are just another part of the standard.

You're right, the lower end TVs aren't the same, but you still get some of that effect.
 
#17 ·
#18 ·
I can wait, so it sounds like the Samsung UN40KU6290 or 6300 is the one you guys suggest for the most features packed into a good price? I don't mind paying the extra if the TV is going to look much better than that $250 Sceptre I was looking at .

I've never heard of madVR, I use Smooth Video Project sometimes when I watch movies. I tend to only be into classic movies and only watch maybe a couple movies a month. I'll give it a shot though
smile.gif


Now I'm going to have to retire the old 280X too
biggrin.gif
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

I can wait, so it sounds like the Samsung UN40KU6290 or 6300 is the one you guys suggest for the most features packed into a good price? I don't mind paying the extra if the TV is going to look much better than that $250 Sceptre I was looking at .

I've never heard of madVR, I use Smooth Video Project sometimes when I watch movies. I tend to only be into classic movies and only watch maybe a couple movies a month. I'll give it a shot though
smile.gif
They cut corners, but in less essential components like the stand and bezel as well as only including 1 HDMI 2.0 port. It does have fairly low input lag as far as TV's go as well, I used it as my main monitor for some time it worked surprisingly well for me. I would have kept using it, but I didn't want to be TVless. UHD programs on Amazon used through the included app are gorgeous as well. I guess it depends on how cheap you can get it. at $450 I'd definitely continue to research competitor's offerings.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

I can wait, so it sounds like the Samsung UN40KU6290 or 6300 is the one you guys suggest for the most features packed into a good price? I don't mind paying the extra if the TV is going to look much better than that $250 Sceptre I was looking at .

I've never heard of madVR, I use Smooth Video Project sometimes when I watch movies. I tend to only be into classic movies and only watch maybe a couple movies a month. I'll give it a shot though
smile.gif


Now I'm going to have to retire the old 280X too
biggrin.gif
Perfect, SVP will actually install/update MadVR for you! You might already be using it with basic settings...

That 280X was a good GPU. The chip itself launched in 2011, and it's held up surprisingly well since then.
 
#21 ·
As stated above HDR is really about bright highlights (dark scene with some bright lights, keeps the darks dark and the brights bright; local dimming is usually how this is done). It also needs a TV with a wide color gamut and at least a 10bit panel (the <7k series does not have a wide color gamut and <8k series do not have local dimming or get bright enough to actually support hdr10 [1000nits required]) to produce the proper colors without banding.

The Samsung 6300/6290 are decent monitors, but not too good for 24p playback. I had the 6290 and had to return it do to judder on movies (both from a bluray player and my PC). No idea how it handled 30hz, it should be better as it divides evenly into 60. Image quality was great and 4k@40" wasn't too small.

At your budget, if you really don't watch movies too much, it should be much nicer than a 1080p TV in the same budget range assuming you can get it for ~$300. If you do watch movies often enough that a slight judder would be annoying, you can try to find a 1080p TV the has smoother 24p playback.
 
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#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick View Post

As stated above HDR is really about bright highlights (dark scene with some bright lights, keeps the darks dark and the brights bright; local dimming is usually how this is done). It also needs a TV with a wide color gamut and at least a 10bit panel (the <7k series does not have a wide color gamut and <8k series do not have local dimming or get bright enough to actually support hdr10 [1000nits required]) to produce the proper colors without banding.

The Samsung 6300/6290 are decent monitors, but not too good for 24p playback. I had the 6290 and had to return it do to judder on movies (both from a bluray player and my PC). No idea how it handled 30hz, it should be better as it divides evenly into 60. Image quality was great and 4k@40" wasn't too small.

At your budget, if you really don't watch movies too much, it should be much nicer than a 1080p TV in the same budget range assuming you can get it for ~$300. If you do watch movies often enough that a slight judder would be annoying, you can try to find a 1080p TV the has smoother 24p playback.
OP uses local videos on a PC with SVP though, so it'll be a native 60hz with an HDMI 2.0 GPU.

MadVR's smooth motion would probably look OK at 30hz... that's mostly down to user preference.
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PurdueBoy View Post

They cut corners, but in less essential components like the stand and bezel as well as only including 1 HDMI 2.0 port. It does have fairly low input lag as far as TV's go as well, I used it as my main monitor for some time it worked surprisingly well for me. I would have kept using it, but I didn't want to be TVless. UHD programs on Amazon used through the included app are gorgeous as well. I guess it depends on how cheap you can get it. at $450 I'd definitely continue to research competitor's offerings.
Well I would expect some compromises at this price, I paid $1350 for a 32" 1080P Toshiba back in 2008 or so, so I'm surprised I'm even looking at this stuff at my budget. I think $450 is a bit much since this is really just my man cave TV, so I'm going to wait for it to go on sale (or if something better is on sale by that time).

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Perfect, SVP will actually install/update MadVR for you! You might already be using it with basic settings...

That 280X was a good GPU. The chip itself launched in 2011, and it's held up surprisingly well since then.
I don't know too much about SVP outside of it doing some 60hz interpolation, which I actually find pretty cool in movies (and I think it does a better job than the modern '120 hz' TVs do, just seems more realistic to me). I found the MadVR website though so I'll read about that later.

It's a great GPU and it won't die yet, it will go into my AMD rig in CFX with the 7950
biggrin.gif
, that or I'll sell it since the 7950 itself seems to be more than enough for what I play on 1080P.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Mind Trick View Post

As stated above HDR is really about bright highlights (dark scene with some bright lights, keeps the darks dark and the brights bright; local dimming is usually how this is done). It also needs a TV with a wide color gamut and at least a 10bit panel (the <7k series does not have a wide color gamut and <8k series do not have local dimming or get bright enough to actually support hdr10 [1000nits required]) to produce the proper colors without banding.

The Samsung 6300/6290 are decent monitors, but not too good for 24p playback. I had the 6290 and had to return it do to judder on movies (both from a bluray player and my PC). No idea how it handled 30hz, it should be better as it divides evenly into 60. Image quality was great and 4k@40" wasn't too small.

At your budget, if you really don't watch movies too much, it should be much nicer than a 1080p TV in the same budget range assuming you can get it for ~$300. If you do watch movies often enough that a slight judder would be annoying, you can try to find a 1080p TV the has smoother 24p playback.
Yeah honestly my primary use for it will be games. I did recently get an HD copy of On The Waterfront which I thought looked incredible on the 1080P sony bravia, so I'm guessing it would only be better or the same-ish even on the Samsung 6290, that's a black and white movie anyway. But it seems like my primary video watching use lately is programming related stuff on youtube or the occasional documentary about the universe when I'm really bored.

I do really like the way games look on the Asus MG279Q, I wonder how they will compare on the TV, granted I paid $500 for that monitor. I don't need absolute perfection on the kick back tv
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

OP uses local videos on a PC with SVP though, so it'll be a native 60hz with an HDMI 2.0 GPU.

MadVR's smooth motion would probably look OK at 30hz... that's mostly down to user preference.
I just checked what utilities I have installed with SVP and sure enough there is MadVR, I just installed that.. Along with SVTube which I was blissfully unaware of.
 
#25 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious_Don View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

OP uses local videos on a PC with SVP though, so it'll be a native 60hz with an HDMI 2.0 GPU.

MadVR's smooth motion would probably look OK at 30hz... that's mostly down to user preference.
I just checked what utilities I have installed with SVP and sure enough there is MadVR, I just installed that.. Along with SVTube which I was blissfully unaware of.
Oh, did you buy SVP? SVTube only comes with the paid version, unless you're using a REALLY ancient version of SVP or something.

MadVR with the right settings would help your MG279Q too.

EDIT: I can help configure it if you want, there are alot of settings to mess with
smile.gif
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Oh, did you buy SVP? SVTube only comes with the paid version, unless you're using a REALLY ancient version of SVP or something.

MadVR with the right settings would help your MG279Q too.
I just saw it as an option on my free version, pretty sure it's up to date. Could be because it's the Linux version I just added that on. I have it in both Linux and Windows, Windows didn't have SVPTube but it does have MadVR

edit: https://www.svp-team.com/wiki/Download

The linux version seems to get everything the paid version on windows does
smile.gif


What does madVR do? It's been added through the SVP utilities on windows but I don't see any madVR config, google isn't helping
 
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