Quote:
Source.
A touch of desperation and FUD and a healthy dose of gall.
But some people still believe that everything is fine and that Microsoft hasn't been trying to turn Windows into a walled garden since Windows 8.
Source.In the upcoming 'Creators' update for Windows 10, Microsoft are planning to add a new feature which attempts to block the installation of bloatware on a person's computer. This new feature has Windows 10 throwing up a user warning whenever someone tries to install an app not bought via the Windows Store.
This sounds innocuous enough-Microsoft are just trying to protect Windows 10 users-but the problem arises from the message this warning box presents whenever someone tries to install a Win32 program for example. This warning has been added under the guise of keeping the PC "safe and reliable", framing non-Windows Store apps as somehow dangerous.
While it certainly is questionable motivation I don't see it as an issue. The users that have an issue with it (like us) are also competent enough to disable or work around such annoyances. Now if they were to actually try and forbid the install then I'm with you.Originally Posted by tpi2007
Source.
A touch of desperation and FUD and a healthy dose of gall.
But some people still believe that everything is fine and that Microsoft hasn't been trying to turn Windows into a walled garden since Windows 8.
It is an issue because this isn't what the Windows ecosystem is about. It's about an open to develop for platform. This fearmongering trying to lure people to the Windows Store is going to harm the ecosystem because Microsoft is going to cast a shadow of doubt on everything outside of their bubble for their own egotistical purposes. And note, not any other store. After all, wasn't there the argument that UWP is now fine because after a few initial updates UWP apps can now be distributed by any company outside of the Windows Store? So what is the argument?Originally Posted by bavarianblessed
While it certainly is questionable motivation I don't see it as an issue. The users that have an issue with it (like us) are also competent enough to disable or work around such annoyances. Now if they were to actually try and forbid the install then I'm with you.
And yet 90% of my friend's/family's Windows computers are loaded with bloatware they installed from the internet. "Driver updaters", toolbars, fake AV, trashy torrent clients, random launchers, background updaters... And that's the more benign stuff.Originally Posted by tpi2007
Quote:
It is an issue because this isn't what the Windows ecosystem is about. It's about an open to develop for platform. This fearmongering trying to lure people to the Windows Store is going to harm the ecosystem because Microsoft is going to cast a shadow of doubt on everything outside of their bubble for their own egotistical purposes. And note, not any other store. After all, wasn't there the argument that UWP is now fine because after a few initial updates UWP apps can now be distributed by any company outside of the Windows Store? So what is the argument?Originally Posted by bavarianblessed
While it certainly is questionable motivation I don't see it as an issue. The users that have an issue with it (like us) are also competent enough to disable or work around such annoyances. Now if they were to actually try and forbid the install then I'm with you.
If this was about security the current system works already. Windows 10 (and XP SP2 and Vista and 7 and 8.1) asks before running anything and tells you where it came from and if it has a verified publisher; Windows 10 has an Anti-virus built-in that can't be turned off (unless there is another one running); the system wide SmartScreen functionality that, per the recommended install setting is on, sends information about every single file you try to install / run to Microsoft's servers to get feedback on whether it's secure and finally they have a search engine (not to mention the OS built-in Bing powered Cortana) that should give them a pretty good idea of what people search for on the Internet and should therefore scan and enhance the Defender application with that kind of feedback.
And then there are all the third party AV providers, security companies, security researchers, the whole community that tests software on a daily basis and keeps things safe.
No, they don't have a point. Why is their store better than anybody else's? Or reputable sites that self-publish and distribute? Why is the Steam / GOG Galaxy / Origin, etc, stores' executable going to receive such a warning upon installation? People with their smartphones filled with fake apps and apps with over the top permissions for what they need to do is everyday knowledge that should tell you that trying to pretend that a store owner is going to be a god-like gatekeeper of the Internet is a fantasy that only they believe in for PR purposes. They keep their stores filled with trash and only clean them up from time to time when pressured; in the meantime they can boast about how many millions of apps they have in their private Internet.Originally Posted by brucethemoose
And yet 90% of my friend's/family's Windows computers are loaded with bloatware they installed from the internet. "Driver updaters", toolbars, fake AV, trashy torrent clients, random launchers, background updaters... And that's the more benign stuff.
Don't get be wrong, I don't like what M$ is doing here. But they do have a point
Who said they weren't trying to emulate Apple's very successful walled garden approach? Why should MS not be allowed to leverage the massive OS market share advantage they enjoy into a more profitable, proprietary format? I suppose they should just shun profits to make sure Windows is entirely open for everybody else to profit from? Come on man, they are in business to make $$$...Originally Posted by tpi2007
Source.
A touch of desperation and FUD and a healthy dose of gall.
But some people still believe that everything is fine and that Microsoft hasn't been trying to turn Windows into a walled garden since Windows 8.
Oh, I know.Originally Posted by tpi2007
Quote:
No they don't. Why is their store better than anybody else's? Or reputable sites that self-publish and distribute? Why is the Steam / GOG Galaxy / Origin, etc, stores' executable going to receive such a warning upon installation? People with their smartphones filled with fake apps and apps with over the top permissions for what they need to do is everyday knowledge that should tell you that trying to pretend that a store owner is going to be a god-like gatekeeper of the Internet is a fantasy that only they believe in for PR purposes. They keep their stores filled with trash and only clean them up from time to time when pressured; in the meantime they can boast about how many millions of apps they have in their private Internet.Originally Posted by brucethemoose
And yet 90% of my friend's/family's Windows computers are loaded with bloatware they installed from the internet. "Driver updaters", toolbars, fake AV, trashy torrent clients, random launchers, background updaters... And that's the more benign stuff.
Don't get be wrong, I don't like what M$ is doing here. But they do have a point
And the end of the day it's not worth it if it implies going too far in trying to paternalize people instead of teaching them good security habits - and accept the fact of life that some people simply will never learn.
The whole smartphone market has unfortunately been a dumbed down walled garden from almost the beginning, but that doesn't make it right.
You can't be serious. You're against net neutrality too? Let the big companies who got to a position of power thanks to net neutrality leverage that power in order to stay there by means of abolishing net neutrality, right?Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric
Who said they weren't trying to emulate Apple's very successful walled garden approach? Why should MS not be allowed to leverage the massive OS market share advantage they enjoy into a more profitable, proprietary format? I suppose they should just shun profits to make sure Windows is entirely open for everybody else to profit from? Come on man, they are in business to make $$$...
The problem is that if this catches on third party developers will be bullied by this shadow of distrust to make their software available only from the Windows Store. And then good luck trying to use Windows without a Microsoft account; that's a click you won't be able to make anymore, in practice.
Microsoft is a business and like most businesses I don't believe they do anything for "egotistical" purposes.Originally Posted by tpi2007
It is an issue because this isn't what the Windows ecosystem is about. It's about an open to develop for platform. This fearmongering trying to lure people to the Windows Store is going to harm the ecosystem because Microsoft is going to cast a shadow of doubt on everything outside of their bubble for their own egotistical purposes.
Don't make me laugh. That is boilerplate PR talk.Originally Posted by RAND0M1ZER
Microsoft is a business and like most businesses I don't believe they do anything for "egotistical" purposes.
They are clearly trying to mimic the highly successful model that Apple has been using. Create a platform which developers can use to sell software on your platform and make a large profit on your cut of the sales. It also works as a directory for users and allows Microsoft to filter out apps that don't meet certain technical requirements. There are some non-technical requirements too but I won't get into that. The point is that the Windows store increases the quality of the platform by forcing developers to modernize their applications (ie. no more Windows Forms) and filters out spam applications for casual users.
Totally agree. MS saw the resistance to what they're doing and decided to just boil the frog slower.Originally Posted by Gunderman456
People are ok with everything it seems.
You start a business, want to sell your software and MS tells people your software is unsafe. More and more of the gullible masses start buying from the MS Store, the wall garden keeps tightening the noose on your business. Finally, you break and decide to put your software on the MS store; less profit for you and a cut for Microsoft.
M$ wins.
People please use your brains. "The it's ok because Apple or Android does it?" REALLY, where are we in the twilight zone? Most of us are on a Windows PC because we abhor these ecosystems to begin with that restrict software and hardware freedoms and now you don't mind that M$ is going that way?
:
Exactly. People can't even help themselves these days apparently. As if people here are using Windows PCs instead of Macs by accident or something.Originally Posted by Gunderman456
People are ok with everything it seems.
You start a business, want to sell your software and MS tells people your software is unsafe. More and more of the gullible masses start buying from the MS Store, the wall garden keeps tightening the noose on your business. Finally, you break and decide to put your software on the MS store; less profit for you and a cut for Microsoft.
M$ wins.
People please use your brains. "The it's ok because Apple or Android does it?" REALLY, where are we in the twilight zone? Most of us are on a Windows PC because we abhor these ecosystems to begin with that restrict software and hardware freedoms and now you don't mind that M$ is going that way?
:
Are you being paranoid about the future of win32 or the M$ "security" excuse to shore up the walls around its garden?Originally Posted by sumitlian
I had been thoroughly learning win32 programming until some months ago and was thinking to continue doing so in very near future in an attempt utilize my c/c++ knowledge to create simple GUI instead of learning c#(.net/core).
Now I am scared by this approach of MS. Not that it is not good for Windows security, I agree with MS in here. I support MS, WIn10 is getting better and more responsive than 7/8/8.1 imo. It is so confusing, it would have been much better if MS explicitly announced that win32 is being abandoned since Windows 10 hence go learn .net instead of win32 so that I and alike learners could directly go .net without any problem.
or am I being to paranoid ?