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post #4711 of 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimJ87D View Post

Yeah a big issue is people thinking that flashing the Asus bios is giving us extra power when no one has actually measured it yet.

The Asus strix bios has a power draw of 275 and 330 max. Well when we flash it on the FE, we can only get up to 110% power draw on this bios... Guess 275X1.1= 300 watts, the maximum power draw of an FE card.

We're not getting any benefit with this bios and other users keep swearing on their mom's souls that they are getting improved performance when they haven't even done any real test to compare to one another.

It really irritates me that all the programs seem to want to quote the TDP numbers in percent rather than absolute values, which I think also confuses the issue as not everyone understands that 110% on the ASUS bios is not the same as 110% on the FE bios.

If you want absolute numbers, a quick and easy test is FurMark, as much as I know KedarWolf doesn't like it. It definitely blew up some VRMs a few generations of cards ago back before TDP limiting and monitoring was a thing, but on modern cards it's no harder on the card than anything else.

Try FurMark with the FE BIOS' TDP slider maxed out, and then with the ASUS BIOS' TDP slider maxed out. If you're worried about the health of your GPU and/or VRMs, only run it for as long as necessary for temps/clocks to stabilize.

Rather than using GPU-Z or Afterburner's percentages, if you want to really see the absolute power consumption that NVidia thinks the card is using, just add '-l 1' to the nvidia-smi.exe command to make it run in a continuous 1000ms polling loop and keep the window open with FurMark running.
Code:
nvidia-smi -q -d power -l 1

You should see your max power draw hitting very close to the advertised TDP limits within a few seconds of FurMark running, unless your limits are so high that even FurMark doesn't power throttle the GPU (my 1070 is fairly close actually, I can sustain 1923-1950mhz and with another 20w I'd probably be there)

With the stock non-OC bios and its 170W TDP limit the card would pull way back into the 1700s in FurMark.
Code:
==============NVSMI LOG==============

Timestamp                           : Mon Apr 10 17:10:15 2017
Driver Version                      : 381.65

Attached GPUs                       : 1
GPU 0000:02:00.0
    Power Readings
        Power Management            : Supported
        Power Draw                  : 196.80 W
        Power Limit                 : 200.00 W
        Default Power Limit         : 166.10 W
        Enforced Power Limit        : 200.00 W
        Min Power Limit             : 75.00 W
        Max Power Limit             : 200.00 W
    Power Samples
        Duration                    : 2.37 sec
        Number of Samples           : 119
        Max                         : 199.14 W
        Min                         : 173.41 W
        Avg                         : 192.07 W
post #4712 of 10455
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThingyNess View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimJ87D View Post

Yeah a big issue is people thinking that flashing the Asus bios is giving us extra power when no one has actually measured it yet.

The Asus strix bios has a power draw of 275 and 330 max. Well when we flash it on the FE, we can only get up to 110% power draw on this bios... Guess 275X1.1= 300 watts, the maximum power draw of an FE card.

We're not getting any benefit with this bios and other users keep swearing on their mom's souls that they are getting improved performance when they haven't even done any real test to compare to one another.

It really irritates me that all the programs seem to want to quote the TDP numbers in percent rather than absolute values, which I think also confuses the issue as not everyone understands that 110% on the ASUS bios is not the same as 110% on the FE bios.

If you want absolute numbers, a quick and easy test is FurMark, as much as I know KedarWolf doesn't like it. It definitely blew up some VRMs a few generations of cards ago back before TDP limiting and monitoring was a thing, but on modern cards it's no harder on the card than anything else.

Try FurMark with the FE BIOS' TDP slider maxed out, and then with the ASUS BIOS' TDP slider maxed out. If you're worried about the health of your GPU and/or VRMs, only run it for as long as necessary for temps/clocks to stabilize.

Rather than using GPU-Z or Afterburner's percentages, if you want to really see the absolute power consumption that NVidia thinks the card is using, just add '-l 1' to the nvidia-smi.exe command to make it run in a continuous 1000ms polling loop and keep the window open with FurMark running.
Code:
nvidia-smi -q -d power -l 1

You should see your max power draw hitting very close to the advertised TDP limits within a few seconds of FurMark running, unless your limits are so high that even FurMark doesn't power throttle the GPU (my 1070 is fairly close actually, I can sustain 1923-1950mhz and with another 20w I'd probably be there)

With the stock non-OC bios and its 170W TDP limit the card would pull way back into the 1700s in FurMark.
Code:
==============NVSMI LOG==============

Timestamp                           : Mon Apr 10 17:10:15 2017
Driver Version                      : 381.65

Attached GPUs                       : 1
GPU 0000:02:00.0
    Power Readings
        Power Management            : Supported
        Power Draw                  : 196.80 W
        Power Limit                 : 200.00 W
        Default Power Limit         : 166.10 W
        Enforced Power Limit        : 200.00 W
        Min Power Limit             : 75.00 W
        Max Power Limit             : 200.00 W
    Power Samples
        Duration                    : 2.37 sec
        Number of Samples           : 119
        Max                         : 199.14 W
        Min                         : 173.41 W
        Avg                         : 192.07 W

To set the Power Limit with the command you said in earlier post to get that few extra percentage points do you need to run the .bat find you made on every boot or just set it o after you install the driver?
    
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post #4713 of 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by KedarWolf View Post


To set the Power Limit with the command you said in earlier post to get that few extra percentage points do you need to run the .bat find you made on every boot or just set it o after you install the driver?

Has to be done on every boot unfortunately, but at least it is lightning quick to complete and automatically exits after the command is done, leaving no memory footprint and consuming no background CPU cycles.
post #4714 of 10455
Anybody pick up a Strix? Curious about its performance, I know it's out in some countries.
post #4715 of 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThingyNess View Post

It really irritates me that all the programs seem to want to quote the TDP numbers in percent rather than absolute values, which I think also confuses the issue as not everyone understands that 110% on the ASUS bios is not the same as 110% on the FE bios.

If you want absolute numbers, a quick and easy test is FurMark, as much as I know KedarWolf doesn't like it. It definitely blew up some VRMs a few generations of cards ago back before TDP limiting and monitoring was a thing, but on modern cards it's no harder on the card than anything else.

Try FurMark with the FE BIOS' TDP slider maxed out, and then with the ASUS BIOS' TDP slider maxed out. If you're worried about the health of your GPU and/or VRMs, only run it for as long as necessary for temps/clocks to stabilize.

Rather than using GPU-Z or Afterburner's percentages, if you want to really see the absolute power consumption that NVidia thinks the card is using, just add '-l 1' to the nvidia-smi.exe command to make it run in a continuous 1000ms polling loop and keep the window open with FurMark running.
Code:
nvidia-smi -q -d power -l 1

You should see your max power draw hitting very close to the advertised TDP limits within a few seconds of FurMark running, unless your limits are so high that even FurMark doesn't power throttle the GPU (my 1070 is fairly close actually, I can sustain 1923-1950mhz and with another 20w I'd probably be there)

With the stock non-OC bios and its 170W TDP limit the card would pull way back into the 1700s in FurMark.
Code:
==============NVSMI LOG==============

Timestamp                           : Mon Apr 10 17:10:15 2017
Driver Version                      : 381.65

Attached GPUs                       : 1
GPU 0000:02:00.0
    Power Readings
        Power Management            : Supported
        Power Draw                  : 196.80 W
        Power Limit                 : 200.00 W
        Default Power Limit         : 166.10 W
        Enforced Power Limit        : 200.00 W
        Min Power Limit             : 75.00 W
        Max Power Limit             : 200.00 W
    Power Samples
        Duration                    : 2.37 sec
        Number of Samples           : 119
        Max                         : 199.14 W
        Min                         : 173.41 W
        Avg                         : 192.07 W

See, that's the problem though. We're given information on a Asus bios which had a power of 275 watts. We're only drawing 110% of that, 300 watts.

So yeah, we're only getting what the FE is designed for, 300 watts.

If I have time I'll run furmark and measure total system power draw on stock BIOS and Asus. Don't really like running furmark though.
Edited by SlimJ87D - 4/10/17 at 5:32pm
post #4716 of 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimJ87D View Post

See, that's the problem though. We're given information on a Asus bios which had a power of 275 watts. We're only drawing 110% of that, 300 watts.

That's my point though. With the Asus BIOS installed, use nvidia-smi to check your current power limit and the BIOS maximums. Also use nvidia-smi to check for certain that you've set it to 330w, and set it manually if need be, and then use it again in loop mode to monitor power draw in FurMark.

If FurMark draws > 300w as shown by nvidia-smi, you know you've broken through the 300w limit of the FE BIOS and are achieving performance that wouldn't be possible with the FE BIOS. If you aren't, then some other limitation is holding you back.

(also, as a sanity check, compare the FurMark clocks between the FE BIOS set to max and the ASUS BIOS set to max. The ASUS BIOS should settle on higher clocks.)

I've gone through this exact exercise on my 1070 flashing a whole bunch of BIOSes trying to get the highest and best power target and have significantly improved its performance in TDP-limited applications. Certain games like The Witcher 3, 4k/5k resolutions, and VR in particular are super power hungry.
Edited by ThingyNess - 4/10/17 at 5:36pm
post #4717 of 10455
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThingyNess View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SlimJ87D View Post

See, that's the problem though. We're given information on a Asus bios which had a power of 275 watts. We're only drawing 110% of that, 300 watts.

That's my point though. With the Asus BIOS installed, use nvidia-smi to check your current power limit and the BIOS maximums. Also use nvidia-smi to check for certain that you've set it to 330w, and set it manually if need be, and then use it again in loop mode to monitor power draw in FurMark.

If FurMark draws > 300w as shown by nvidia-smi, you know you've broken through the 300w limit of the FE BIOS and are achieving performance that wouldn't be possible with the FE BIOS. If you aren't, then some other limitation is holding you back.

(also, as a sanity check, compare the FurMark clocks between the FE BIOS set to max and the ASUS BIOS set to max. The ASUS BIOS should settle on higher clocks.)

I've gone through this exact exercise on my 1070 flashing a whole bunch of BIOSes trying to get the highest and best power target and have significantly improved its performance in TDP-limited applications. Certain games like The Witcher 3, 4k/5k resolutions, and VR in particular are super power hungry.

I'm done comparing the BIOS's, been at it a few weeks now, 2050 on stock at 1.025v what I'm settling at, but I'll definitely max out the power limit with a .bat file running as admin on boot. smile.gif
    
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post #4718 of 10455

So... 100+ messages since I went to sleep, I'm just going to assume not a single person knew the answer to my questions lol.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post
 

Yeah... there was 1080 SC full cover block, but that was probably because it was actually reference pcb. In their page http://www.evga.com/products/product.aspx?pn=08g-p4-6183-kr it shows the phase count being same as FE I believe. Now it's like... buy a cheaper card and possibly miss out on full cover block, or buy more expensive card that I might now need. 

I'm really looking for a card on Amazon too so I can get 5% cash back. Other cards might not have pre-order option and the clock is ticking on my Prime (27 more days).

 

 

edit:

Google-fu net me this:

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/ekwb-five-1080-ti-blocks,34036.html

 

Graphics Card EK Water Block model Availability
NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti EK-FC1080 GTX Ti Early April 2017
ASUS® GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti Strix EK-FC1080 GTX Ti Strix Mid April 2017
MSI® GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti GAMING X EK-FC1080 GTX Ti TF6 Early May 2017
GIGABYTE® GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti Aorus EK-FC1080 GTX Ti Aorus Early May 2017
EVGA® GeForce® GTX 1080 Ti FTW3 EK-FC1080 GTX Ti FTW Late May 2017

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post
 

You prompted me to recheck their site, which is a good thing. I must have mixed up the SC with the Armor X (which despite being entry level pricing still has 8+8), whereas the non FTW3 will be the usual. Not sure what to make of the phase count disparity though, and the fact that it's not on the 1080ti FE block list. 

 



Yeah, I think it's likely FTW3 will get a block. I guess from what I have been hearing, extra power and voltage just doesn't help that much for overclocking in above ambient conditions.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post
 

I'd read the posts here but now there are almost 1500 new posts and it's just too many for me to go through.

 

Anybody know if EVGA SC Black/SC/FTW3 will get an EK full cover waterblock? I think they will but I'd like some confirmation. In EK configurator (https://www.ekwb.com/configurator/) they seem to have them for 1080 SC... not quite the SC Black. I think these are all non-reference. Too bad review sites don't clearly state if a PCB is reference or not. List here (https://www.ekwb.com/news/ek-releasing-full-cover-water-blocks-nvidia-gtx-1080-ti-graphics-cards/) makes it look like all non FE are not ref PCB...

 

Also anyone got any good ideas/info on power limits on the 3 EVGA skus?

Thanks in advance.

 

Edited by Darkwizzie - 4/10/17 at 6:31pm
   
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post #4719 of 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by KedarWolf View Post

I'm done comparing the BIOS's, been at it a few weeks now, 2050 on stock at 1.025v what I'm settling at, but I'll definitely max out the power limit with a .bat file running as admin on boot. smile.gif

Shouldn't be any need to. 250W rounds up nicely to 300W with 1.2 times. Was showing 300W here when I checked with NVidia-smi.
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post #4720 of 10455
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThingyNess View Post

That's my point though. With the Asus BIOS installed, use nvidia-smi to check your current power limit and the BIOS maximums. Also use nvidia-smi to check for certain that you've set it to 330w, and set it manually if need be, and then use it again in loop mode to monitor power draw in FurMark.

If FurMark draws > 300w as shown by nvidia-smi, you know you've broken through the 300w limit of the FE BIOS and are achieving performance that wouldn't be possible with the FE BIOS. If you aren't, then some other limitation is holding you back.

(also, as a sanity check, compare the FurMark clocks between the FE BIOS set to max and the ASUS BIOS set to max. The ASUS BIOS should settle on higher clocks.)

I've gone through this exact exercise on my 1070 flashing a whole bunch of BIOSes trying to get the highest and best power target and have significantly improved its performance in TDP-limited applications. Certain games like The Witcher 3, 4k/5k resolutions, and VR in particular are super power hungry.

I might just run heaven in real time and log the system power consumption with corsair link and see the max power draw. Then do it for Asus bios
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