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NVIDIA GTX 1080 Ti Owner's Club - Page 587

post #5861 of 10745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasboogieman View Post

Ahh I see, the Zotac VRM design looks similar to their 1080 (from what I can glean on the Official page), just more phases. If it matters, the MOSFETs on that edition had a weird 2 phase low side + 1 phase high side (i.e. 3 MOSFETs per VRM phase) setup. However the mosfets themselves are pretty cheapo individually (i.e. low efficiency) which means they need some seriously beefy cooling to get their optimal output. The 2 by 1 setup means your ultimate current capability is limited by the spike durability of the lone high side FET so thats the one that is going to blow if something goes wrong. As for how to get 16 + 2 phases, I have no idea how they're achieving that. 6 x 3? maybe? but triplers really weird but chances are, unless they got permission to use a different voltage reegulator, the actual regulation should be on par with the Aorus.

Also, I re-listened to the PCB breakdown again, I was wrong. The ASUS has a 5 x 2 +2 setup not a 6 x 1 +2. However, it is also very likely ASUS still has the best voltage regulation because their MOSFETs are godly, high efficiency and run at the same 300khz that all the others so far are running at, though MSI come a close second.

So I'm guessing that means more stable clocks/boost over time and more reliability? Over higher but less stable boost clocks on the Aorus and Amp Extreme?

Over at the 1070 thread the consensus is that the Amp Extreme cards seem to be the best overall though. I myself own a Strix 1070 but the asking price for the Strix 1080 ti is kinda ridiculous over other partner 1080tis here.
post #5862 of 10745
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom View Post

So I'm guessing that means more stable clocks/boost over time and more reliability? Over higher but less stable boost clocks on the Aorus and Amp Extreme?

Over at the 1070 thread the consensus is that the Amp Extreme cards seem to be the best overall though. I myself own a Strix 1070 but the asking price for the Strix 1080 ti is kinda ridiculous over other partner 1080tis here.

Despite all this geeky electrical talk, its functionally irrelevant on Aircooling (perhaps even water cooling). They're all functionally the same because we cannot push the kind of voltages + clocks where the power delivery actually matters.
The conditions where the VRMs on these cards will differentiate themselves from each other is under LN2 where massive voltages and current are involved.

The ASUS one is probably the most "elegant" design from a pure electrical design perspective because it uses such high quality efficient MOSFETs (which you pay for), you won't be getting much thermal output from the VRM area (thus actually making the ASUS model ideal for AIO cooling mods).

In terms of reliability, all the cards are functionally the same imo because none of us push them hard or hold them long enough for it to matter. From a long term perspective, if we look at purely from an engineering perspective, less components=less chances for something to fail also more efficient=less heat=less degradation.

I'm personally very uneasy at the fact that Zotac used an asymmetrical Low/High setup and with cheapo MOSFETs some more. Historically, the most famous example of asymmetric designs is the AMD 290x, those MOSFETs they used were server grade but they output an insane amount of heat plus the high side had a tendency to blow at high voltages because the low side was able to draw so much power in comparison. The other example I can think of was the infamous GTX 570 Reference which also had a tendency to blow the high side.

More of cheap not a particularly elegant design if you catch my drift, because individually, those fets generate more heat and you're getting the same current capability anyway so the 16+2 is pretty much all for marketing and little substance.

TLDR: you get what you pay for with the ASUS model, will it help with OC? maybe if ur under LN2 but Air cooled its irrelevant.
Edited by Dasboogieman - 4/18/17 at 1:05am
post #5863 of 10745
I just dont get this 1080ti... I can bench and run heaven stress test for hours at 2037-2050 but even at 2012 in games i get driver crashes all the time. What the heck is going on lol. I just rolled back from the 381.78 driver to the 381.65... Not sure if its the driver itself that is causing it. But the game i mostly play is BF1 on ultra with DX12. So could it be DX12 that could be making it crash or the old driver... Willl test out the .65 more tomorrow also turning off DX12.

Using EVGA precision X.
Power 120%
Tried upping the volts to +50-100
+140-160 core: and get the same thing no matter what in BF1
+400 mem

in heaven if i go past 160 i get crashes

Memory at +500 seems stable

I can bench at
+200 core
+625 mem

Thanks for any info.
Taint3d
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Taint3d
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post #5864 of 10745
My FE 1080ti flashing at boot and there is a solid horizontal line running down my monitor. Seems like its a problem with FE cards and having to disable csm in bios to boot normal. I tried everything under the sun and really don't want to load a new windows with csm disabled. Anyone on here have a fix? Once I reboot and get into windows its fine. Just annoying my 1080 FE didn't have this issue.....
post #5865 of 10745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taint3dBulge View Post

I just dont get this 1080ti... I can bench and run heaven stress test for hours at 2037-2050 but even at 2012 in games i get driver crashes all the time. What the heck is going on lol. I just rolled back from the 381.78 driver to the 381.65... Not sure if its the driver itself that is causing it. But the game i mostly play is BF1 on ultra with DX12. So could it be DX12 that could be making it crash or the old driver... Willl test out the .65 more tomorrow also turning off DX12.

Using EVGA precision X.
Power 120%
Tried upping the volts to +50-100
+140-160 core: and get the same thing no matter what in BF1
+400 mem

in heaven if i go past 160 i get crashes

Memory at +500 seems stable

I can bench at
+200 core
+625 mem

Thanks for any info.

Because some games are much more sensitive to overclocks than others. In fact, theres little correlation between how games are loading the GPU and how stable an overclock is. I personally found the FFXIV Free benchmark to be a really good indicator of stability (just loop the 4k at max settings), if you make it through an hr its truly "stable. Hell, I remember Ghost Recon Future Soldier used to crash on AIB cards unless you get rid of the factory overclock.

Lastly, get ur GPU colder, mine needs 100% fan speeds to keep temps under 70 otherwise my 2050 clocks are no longer stable
post #5866 of 10745
So I'm guessing that means more stable clocks/boost over time and more reliability? Over higher but less stable boost clocks on the Aorus and Amp Extreme?

Over at the 1070 thread the consensus is that the Amp Extreme cards seem to be the best overall though. I myself own a Strix 1070 but the asking price for the Strix 1080 ti is kinda ridiculous over other partner 1080tis here.[/quote]

aesthetics is it is all about the aesthetics biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasboogieman View Post

Despite all this geeky electrical talk, its functionally irrelevant on Aircooling (perhaps even water cooling). They're all functionally the same because we cannot push the kind of voltages + clocks where the power delivery actually matters.
The conditions where the VRMs on these cards will differentiate themselves from each other is under LN2 where massive voltages and current are involved.

The ASUS one is probably the most "elegant" design from a pure electrical design perspective because it uses such high quality efficient MOSFETs (which you pay for), you won't be getting much thermal output from the VRM area (thus actually making the ASUS model ideal for AIO cooling mods).

In terms of reliability, all the cards are functionally the same imo because none of us push them hard or hold them long enough for it to matter. From a long term perspective, if we look at purely from an engineering perspective, less components=less chances for something to fail also more efficient=less heat=less degradation.

I'm personally very uneasy at the fact that Zotac used an asymmetrical Low/High setup and with cheapo MOSFETs some more. Historically, the most famous example of asymmetric designs is the AMD 290x, those MOSFETs they used were server grade but they output an insane amount of heat plus the high side had a tendency to blow at high voltages because the low side was able to draw so much power in comparison. The other example I can think of was the infamous GTX 570 Reference which also had a tendency to blow the high side.

More of cheap not a particularly elegant design if you catch my drift, because individually, those fets generate more heat and you're getting the same current capability anyway so the 16+2 is pretty much all for marketing and little substance.

TLDR: you get what you pay for with the ASUS model, will it help with OC? maybe if ur under LN2 but Air cooled its irrelevant.

you are making me feel, the need to get a full cover block go away. biggrin.gif
I am still undecided but I am probably too lazy to re-do the loop and spend more time and money for minimal gains.

kamikaze
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post #5867 of 10745
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBoom View Post

So I'm guessing that means more stable clocks/boost over time and more reliability? Over higher but less stable boost clocks on the Aorus and Amp Extreme?

Over at the 1070 thread the consensus is that the Amp Extreme cards seem to be the best overall though. I myself own a Strix 1070 but the asking price for the Strix 1080 ti is kinda ridiculous over other partner 1080tis here.

For us mere mortals I just really struggle to see the point of having a VRM setup that can pipe 600W without breaking a sweat.

At the end of the day, your card will be stable 2100Mhz at 1.093V... or it wont. That seems to me like a function of the silicone lottery more so than the stability of power regulation delivered by the VRM. Next issue will be what kind of clocks it can hold under heavy load within its TDP limits.

If you're soldering on the various bits an pieces to bypass power limits and manually adjust core voltage, with a view to pouring a cup of LN2 onto the card, I can see how the composition of the VRM phases would be of relevance.

TDP limit and cooling solution seem to be the only variables that are going to impact performance on these things. Otherwise it's down to aesthetics and that sweet RGB street cred.
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post #5868 of 10745
Thread Starter 
Hey all,

Been busy with real life stuff. If you all want to bew added to the Owner's List, please comment your details in the OP spreadsheet for out Mods and myself to add you.

Thanks!!

Tested both new 'unnofficial' Gigabyte bios's someone posted a while back, not working, same issues as the earlier Aorus bios's. frown.gif
    
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post #5869 of 10745
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mshagg View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by KedarWolf View Post

Yes, you're right. Extreme BIOS doesn't work, already tried it. frown.gif

There's some non-extreme GA BIOSes to try:

https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/191240/191240
https://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios/191202/191202

The second one is the gaming OC card, with 8+2 power phases, but only has 300W limit it seems:

https://www.aorus.com/product-detail.php?p=168&t=17&t2=23&t3=27

Tried both BIOS's, no go, same issues as earlier Aorus BIOS's. frown.gif
    
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post #5870 of 10745
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KickAssCop View Post

KickAssCop - ASUS 1080 Ti FE- Stock Cooling, 2050 core, 6050 memory.

Will update once I have the MSI Gaming X card in as well.

Comment on the spreadsheet in the OP and we'll add you. Thanks!!
    
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Acer XB280HK 4K Gsync QNIX QX2710 LED 27" WQHD 2560x1440 Corsair AX1500i Thermaltake Core X9 
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