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post #12861 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clukos View Post

For games it is actually

1. mem freq
2. cpu freq
3. mem timings

See here:


tl;tw The 1700 at stock freq with faster memory is beating 1800x at higher freq with slower memory.

I think you may have misinterpreted his point, which was to compare a 1800x with down clocked memory (2133) to a 1700 with 3200 memory. Overall he is trying to say that going with a 1700 and faster memory is smarter than an 1800x, since they overclock to similar levels anyway.

There are tons of articles and vids on the topic out there, here are a just a few examples looking more directly at memory speeds with Ryzen and gaming, and impacts of CPU overclocking:

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/Ryzen_Memory_Analysis/

They tested across 17 games, and found that going from 2133 CL14 to 3200 CL14 netted a 5.5% gain at 1080p, a 3.3% gain at 1440p, and a 0.8% gain at 4k.

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/amd_ryzen_7_memory_and_tweaking_analysis_review,10.html

Here the differences are set out a bit nicer between gains from CPU Frequency and gains from memory frequency in gaming

http://www.gamersnexus.net/hwreviews/2865-ryzen-revisit-ram-overclock-windows-update-efi-updates.

These guys are hard core and this article and video is good because they look at impact on gaming with 3466 memory frequency.

The bottom line seems to be CPU frequency accounts for the largest gains overall, with memory frequency following up, and timings have a positive impact, but third place. The big picture is that by combining CPU and memory overclocking, you can achieve really significant gains at lower resolutions (not GPU bound scenarios). Maybe 25%-35% in some cases.
post #12862 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by CeltPC View Post

I think you may have misinterpreted his point, which was to compare a 1800x with down clocked memory (2133) to a 1700 with 3200 memory. Overall he is trying to say that going with a 1700 and faster memory is smarter than an 1800x, since they overclock to similar levels anyway..

Not that's not it, it was a 1700 at stock (3.0GHz) against a 1800x (3.6GHz) pared with 3200MHz memory and 2133MHz respectively and that was the result:

21fs0s.png

Most modern games favor memory bandwidth over CPU clock speed, obviously the combination of both is the best option. And the results change from games to game, some favor mem b/w more than others.
Edited by Clukos - 5/1/17 at 1:10am
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post #12863 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by CeltPC View Post

Well, I decided to take a Test and Guinness hiatus to actually see what might happen regarding the whole SOC value and Latency debate. Unfortunate it got ugly in his postings, but whatever, I went for some data. Unless someone actually wants to sift through the 12 screen snips, I will only post the results. Here is what I did:

1. Keep ALL settings identical with the exception of changing SOC values.
2. Reboot, test in AIDA, do a snip of results, close AIDA.
3. Test in SIV64, do a snip of results, close SIV64
4. Reboot, rinse, and repeat for each SOC value.

I think that the person that claims this theory did mean that : "if your SoC voltage is too low your latency will be different than when it is at a value that will be sufficient for the memory controller to work at its best."

And so your tests are not ok, if the first voltage of your test is sufficient for the memory controller to work correctly.
You should start with a too low value. Or a very high memory speed to be sure the SoC will be undervolted.
post #12864 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clukos View Post

Not that's not it, it was a 1700 at stock (3.0GHz) against a 1800x (3.6GHz) pared with 3200MHz memory and 2133MHz respectively and that was the result:

21fs0s.png

Most modern games favor memory bandwidth over CPU clock speed, obviously the combination of both is the best option. And the results change from games to game, some favor mem b/w more than others.

Then lets compare it with faster memory as well, then obviously the 1800x is a better buy haha. I've yet to see many people stuck at 2133 though, so that's not quite realistic as well. He should do a video of 1800x 2133 against 3200 and beyond.
    
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post #12865 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Then lets compare it with faster memory as well, then obviously the 1800x is a better buy haha. I've yet to see many people stuck at 2133 though, so that's not quite realistic as well. He should do a video of 1800x 2133 against 3200 and beyond.

The point is that Ryzen scales with memory speed more than clock speed in modern games. Not that you should buy a 1800x or a 1700 or anything. I think it's obvious that the 1700 is a better buy if you are planning on overclocking, as is the 1800x if you plan to stay at stock clocks.
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post #12866 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clukos View Post

The point is that Ryzen scales with memory speed more than clock speed in modern games. Not that you should buy a 1800x or a 1700 or anything. I think it's obvious that the 1700 is a better buy if you are planning on overclocking, as is the 1800x if you plan to stay at stock clocks.

You can still have a bad 1700 and clock low.
post #12867 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clukos View Post

The point is that Ryzen scales with memory speed more than clock speed in modern games. Not that you should buy a 1800x or a 1700 or anything. I think it's obvious that the 1700 is a better buy if you are planning on overclocking, as is the 1800x if you plan to stay at stock clocks.

Yea except you're about a month late with that fact lol. We've figured this out AGES ago. Even going past 3200mhz nets an even bigger gain, it's just a shame as of right now it can only be done with bclk. A few people are hitting 3600mhz no problem. Would be nice to see benchmarks from 3200 to 3600 instead of synthetic bs.
    
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post #12868 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Yea except you're about a month late with that fact lol.

doh.gif

Read what I've posted in the previous page.
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post #12869 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

Btw, I updated the OP with current issues/solution/status. Let me know if you feel something is missing. Please note that I can't add every detail, let's stick to essential knowledge for users new to this thread.

May I ask/suggest CPB: [Disabled] on Extreme Tweaker page be recommended for anyone OC'ing PState via UEFI be added in the relevant paragraph smile.gif .
Quote:
Originally Posted by CeltPC View Post

Wow, getting way up there. How much does the video card influence the cinebench score?

Cheers smile.gif . The OpenGL test uses GPU IIRC. That was just CPU sub smile.gif .
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Had another f9>8 error and boot loop, once it restarts memory is down to 2133 in the BIOS but still shows up as 3200 in the strap haha. Loading profile back up makes it stick, gonna try going from 1.10v soc to 1.15 and hope it goes away. If it happens again its back down to 2933.

Increase Fail_CNT from 1 to perhaps 3, this may help settings apply on a F9 q-code boot, this will make rig do 3x post when F9 happen and try to apply your settings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibeat117 View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
not much of improvement Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Also Aida bias enabled with slight improvement

You have just repeated what you posted on post 12770 and seem to have missed my post here. IF you do not check scaling of bench based on CPU clock speeds then you will not know if PB CB15 is valuable or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaseki View Post

I think the bolded text may be a clue for the cold boot issue. Unless the BIOS default ProcODT resistance is close to what is needed, then losing the value upon booting certainly won't help the boot success.

Prior to AMD code detecting error with memory training it would have used the ProcODT saved on previous boot, when the training failed it resets to [Auto].
Edited by gupsterg - 5/1/17 at 1:51am
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post #12870 of 16868
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clukos View Post

doh.gif

Read what I've posted in the previous page.

Yes i saw, memory speeds matter more. We knew this from the get go, i even have GAMING benchmarks from a month ago proving so. I even tested rise of the tomb raider which went DOWN in performance the higher the ram speed (which gives any benchmark and anyone who uses it as a benchmark null and void). Its a very VERY spotty benchmark and not even remotely accurate in terms of repetition.

Here you go.

i5 4690k/r7 1700x/r7 1700x 3.8ghz, 2933mhz(hp)/balanced / 3200 hp

Rise of the Tomb Raider (DX12)

Mountain Peak
Min 47.58 / 45.76 / 48.81 / 46.20 / 49.28
Avg 84.44 / 68.61 / 84.60 / 82.99 / 83.64
Max 126.17 / 119.18 / 138.08 / 145.87 / 141.07

Syria
Min 18.75 / 37.06 / 35.25 / 32.07 / 30.46
Avg 64.71 / 71.00 / 64.55 / 64.98 / 64.00
Max 77.93 / 97.79 / 82.97 / 91.23 / 85.19

Geothermal Valley
Min 34.96 / 30.33 / 41.99 / 42.41 / 41.68
Avg 58.27 / 63.29 / 58.64 / 58.79 / 58.03
Max 79.48 / 79.69 / 73.78 / 74.90 / 73.29

Overall 69.38 / 67.43 / 69.54 / 69.14 / 68.81


Grid Autosport
Min 86.98 / 69.90 / 82.35 / 82.733 / 87.43
Avg 111.84 / 95.30 / 107.15 / 107.68 / 111.19
Max 156.24 / 132.85 / 139.34 / 142.75 / 144.63

So yea i do know what I'm saying I was one of the first to post benchmarks for ryzen and gaming compared to devils canyon. Far Cry Primal saw like no improvement except in min rate (important so its a good improvement). Grid Autosport (old game probably only uses a couple cores) saw a HUGE improvement with an OC and memory at 2933, more of a boost then it saw going from 2933 to 3200.

You STILL need a good high speed IPC for gaming, this is why the 7700k destroys the r7 ryzen in gaming even with the same memory speeds. Ryzen is getting better in that regard but you still need an OC for it to work even better, same way you do with the i5s. Saying memory matters more isn't entirely true. You really do need both.
    
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