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ROG Crosshair VI overclocking thread - Page 835

post #8341 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Its going to depend on every situation.

Around here you're not stable unless you run intelburntest at maximum for a million hours. Ive done all my rigs and customer rigs the same way. 15-30min run of realbench/intelutility (still uses linpack btw) then i will run it all day just on to check for idle/background task stability, in the process ill check for WHEA errors then change offset/voltage accordingly. After all thats done, ill game on it solid for a couple days and run photoshop to edit some raw/jpeg files. Thats my baseline, when i change OC i repeat the process.

My 1700x at 3.8ghz is doing it fine at 1.199v under load, hasn't crashed once, hasn't 8 coded once, ZERO WHEA errors in my final setup so for me in my case its stable.

The people running IBT for 24hrs (and unless your PC is actually maxing out all cores at 100% for 24/7 then yea) all you are doing is slowly degrading your chip. I know musmus will argue with me to the death but i really don't care. Ive been doing it this way for 15years ive never had a customer or my pc have an unstable OC. Then again its also based on usage, if someone is folding then ill run the pc folding for 36hrs and change voltage accordingly. Its all dependent, just like audio and video are.

It's mus-one-mus tongue.gif

On the other thread, I told you the differences between this stress test and that. Not arguing dude. I also said, if the method is working fine for you, it's okay, you're fine.

But don't take a shot at those people running IBT dude. I thought I have seen degradation. But simply just because I have used different boards.
Edited by mus1mus - 4/10/17 at 5:20pm
post #8342 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

It's mus-one-mus tongue.gif

On the other thread, I told you the differences between this stress test and that. Not arguing dude. I also said, if the method is working fine for you, it's okay, you're fine.

But don't take a shot at those people running IBT dude. I thought I have seen degradation. But simply just because I have used different boards.

I know men its all out of love, 1.199v is pretty damn impressive even for realbench, it was getting WHEA errors at lower voltages but with no crashes even gamed on it just fine. We'll have to wait and see but its been rock stable for me.
    
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post #8343 of 16925
Sheesh... all the insta-BSOD from attempting to get 3200 strap to work finally did some real file damage!
post #8344 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrluk View Post

Especially given that AMD posted a picture of a Ryzen 1700 running DDR4-3400 on an ASUS C6H board on 2017-02-27.
https://twitter.com/AMDRyzen/status/836285599636127744
Made me smile. AMD handpicked 1700 can run TridentZ probably F4-4266C19D-16GTZA in C6H with 0702 BIOS at 127.5MHz FSB. Kind of narrows the usability of 1700. The $100 saved over X-chip is spent on a board with clock gen.
post #8345 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

I know men its all out of love, 1.199v is pretty damn impressive even for realbench, it was getting WHEA errors at lower voltages but with no crashes even gamed on it just fine. We'll have to wait and see but its been rock stable for me.

Just run it long enough to be guaranteed free of those black screen issue.
post #8346 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

Thanks for the answer, but this does not even remotely fit the readings in HWinfo. That is unless the "CPU socket thermistor" is different to the "CPU (Socket)" reading in HWinfo, then we would need a proper readout of that.

If "CPU (Socket)" is indeed the "CPU socket thermistor" then it seems that Tctl+5 is used up to about 60C and then some averaging algorithm is used, unfortunately with a not so clear weighting (but mostly weighted for Tctl).
Sorry, but I am not convinced. I repeatedly reproduced that "Sense Skew" is the deciding factor between the CPU safety measures happening or not happening.

Sense Skew disabled: Soft throttling (down to about x30) happens at Tctl + Offset = 95C. Hard throttling (x0.5!!!) happens at Tctl = 95C. Thermal shutdown happens at about Tctl = 115C.

Sense Skew enabled: Soft throttling happens with certain loads regardless of Tctl or at very low Tctl (if CPU at stock clock). Tctl + Offset = 95C or Tctl = 95C cannot be reached at stock clocks/voltages, as a consequence no throttling happens. Tctl = 115C cannot be reached at stock clocks/voltages, as a consequence no thermal shutdown happens! Instead the CPU crashes to Code 8 when these high temperatures happen.

In the following screenshot Tctl is reported as 66.3C, but the real CPU temperature is likely higher than 110C! Shortly after taking this screenshot I got a Code 8.



And here is Tctl at over 110C for the same load, same (disabled) cooling and especially same "CPU (Socket)" temperature without Sense Skew. Shortly after taking this screenshot I got a thermal shutdown (last reading was Tctl = 113C, SIO = 109C, couldn't save last screenshot before shutdown).

More important: Disabling Sense Skew leads to proper throttling and thermal shutdowns without producing a Code 8. Again, I reproduced this repeatedly!


This is reassuring to know. Nevertheless I would prefer if CPU safety measures would work, especially proper thermal throttling.

For the time being I disable Sense Skew and hope that Asus will change fan control to allow more than 75C and HWinfo (Martin) can come up with some logic that makes "Tdie" follow the dynamically changing Tctl offset (+0/+10/+20) and thus better compensate for it in its readings. The whole offset thing is a rather inelegant way of handling certain CPU instructions' load.

Anyone using Sense Skew with the 1800X should watch their "CPU (Socket)" temps, if they climb over 60-70C then your CPU likely is burning hot towards 100C already, regardless of what Tctl and SIO CPU claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

Thanks, it's mostly important for fan profiles. You can see clearly in my screenshots that SIO CPU does not mirror CPU (Socket) when it switches from Tctl+5 to whatever algorithm is used.
I doubt that this is obvious to most users here or elsewhere. And don't you think a default setting that allows the CPU to reach 115C without throttling or shutdown is a bit dangerous, even more so when Tctl reads as low as 65C at that point!?

devil.gif

I also seem to have experienced at least one time where the skew settings changed from one boot to another, with only a cold boot returning them to defaults. This doesn't exactly inspire confidence in the default Auto settings.


This worries me. So enabling Sense Skew could potentially result in a very high CPU temperature without thermal throttling/shutdown?
post #8347 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

Got some new BIOS so I'll pull the previous ones (obselete).

Hi elmor, want to give you and the guys here my findings.
Some of them I wrote before, but this thread is growing so fast. wink.gif

My System right now:
- Ryzen 7 1700 @3.8GHz@1.28V(0.12V offset) + Wraith Spire LED (idle on 1.5GHz@0.567V)
- 16GB F4-3200C14D-16GVK 3200@2933 CL14

First, RAM, I have F4-3200C14D-16GVK, which are QVL@3200, but for me they only work at 2933.

I tried 081 and 083 with these settings:
- DOCP 3200 / CL16 / ODT auto / DRAM boot V 1.45V / DRAM V 1.45 -> booted but had 1.48V (that's too high for me)
- ODT 80 or 96 didn't matter, only 1.45V (1.48V) were important
- everything under 1.45V went into safeboot (2133)
- why is my QVL RAM not working?

So, that's the only ASUS issue I have right now.

Just for giggles, some AGESA issue:
- changing p2 FID below 70 (1.4GHz) goes to a QCode "0C", after this no "Clear CMOS" nor "power cycle" works, only reflash via USB flashback! (annoying)
- at BIOS 1001 (with AGESA 1.00x) I could go as low as 1.2GHz

Next, OC findings:
- my max RAM speed is at 3175 with a BCLK of 108.2MHz (with CL14 and 1.35V DRAM V)
- idle powerdraw rises by 10W on this (no Voltage was changed, p0 FID decreased to 8C (3.79GHz))
- why?

Before I forget it, thanks a lot for your support here. I learned so much and I'm still excited about this new platform, keep us posted. Kop khun krap thumb.gif
Edited by TwoBeers - 4/10/17 at 5:51pm
post #8348 of 16925
Using offset mode for Vcore. For some reason when I'm in BIOS it shows >1.4V with an offset of 0.1V, but in windows under prime95 the voltage shows ~1.15V. What the heck is going on?
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post #8349 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Just run it long enough to be guaranteed free of those black screen issue.

Haven't seen one yet, honestly I'm surprised with all the issues people have been having I've had zero.
    
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post #8350 of 16925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reikoji View Post

Sheesh... all the insta-BSOD from attempting to get 3200 strap to work finally did some real file damage!
interesting?

edit:
on a side note, i noticed higher idle voltage with my 1800x. everything on auto, doing normal tasks like web browsing, my 1800x is averaging 1.4v's on both the cpu vcore and cpu vcore monitor in hwmonitor. that's with amd's ryzen balance profile and 0081 bios. if this is caused by amd's ryzen balance profile then i find it ironic since they recommended not pushing above 1.35v's for longevity when their own profile is making mine average 1.4v's lol.

in the mean time i turned off xfr. i bought a 1800x because i didn't really want to overclock but now loosing that boost performance because of the high voltage :/

i guess on the bright side my fans are a whole a lot quieter now... amazing how much cooler its running with ~1.2(x)v's are used at stock 3.6ghz instead of 1.4-1.5v's for xfr lol.

another edit:
huh. noticed my 1800x will not drop below 3.6ghz now since i disabled xfr. does amd ryzen balance profile need xfr enabled or something?

wait looking at its profile settings it sets minimum processor state to 90%... well i guess 90% when xfr is enabled would keep it around 3.6-3.7ghz range since xfr goes to 4-4.1ghz. but with xfr disabled, 90% of 3.6ghz would be... 3.3-3.4ghz? but with it not wanting to drop below stock 3.6ghz... makes me wonder if xfr really has to be enabled with the ryzen balance profile. this is whole a lot of confusing. i guess i could use high performance profile but i also kinda want to use amd's own profile made for their own processor... but doing that means insane high average voltage just browsing the web with one tab open or... funkyness with xfr disabled.
Edited by orlfman - 4/10/17 at 6:24pm
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