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ROG Crosshair VI overclocking thread - Page 852

post #8511 of 17615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

At stock during x264 I read a max of 1.2417 V at ProbeIt vs. 1.2111 V at socket vs. 1.194 V SVI2 (hit 1.20 V some time later).

Adding 0.011 V to SVI2 closes the gap between SVI2 and socket, but ProbeIt still is far too high. And that's at stock LLC0 (Auto), it gets worse at higher LLC settings, except that I measured LLC0 and LLC1 to be the very same (!) at ProbeIt. Yep, useless. rolleyes.gif

"X" = higher leakage vs non "X" I have.

Would this not fit with how higher leakage = greater LL effect?
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post #8512 of 17615
1.406v on SVI2 TFN still giving me WHEA errors. 4.0Ghz a no go at reasonable voltage, I'm not going higher, don't want to go above 1.4v really.

I might just do a Blue and say they can't be trusted and are caused by Windows tongue.gif
post #8513 of 17615
CPU Core Voltage (SVI2 TFN) on 3.9GHz +250mV LLC [Auto] max 1.44V on x264.

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post #8514 of 17615
What's most you'd be willing to go on SIV2 voltage?
post #8515 of 17615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadfly View Post

Not really a board limitation from what I have observed. So I guess this is a good time to introduce my theory about memory clocks. I have two CH6's, two 1800x, and one 1700 that belong to a buddy of mine. We have 4 ram kits, all G.skill, 1ea 2x8 3200 Cas 14, 2ea 2x8 3600 Cas 16, and 1ea 2x8 4266 C19.


Here is my initial observation:

On both boards all 4 memory kits will run 3200 CL14 without any issues on both 1800x. On both boards, and all 4 memory kits, the 1700 struggles to hit over 2933 without some serious SOC and DRAM voltage increases.. So 4 memory kits, 2 motherboards, the memory results are the same for each CPU no matter how you mix and match them.

So from our testing it appears the CPU is the deciding factor. Which after some thinking and reviewing of AMD's materials, started to make ALOT of sense to me. I am in the opinion that what we are seeing is limitations in the data fabric (or Infinity Fabric depending on who you ask). In talking to a few people I have also began to notice a correlation between max stable OC and memory speeds. It appears the CPU's that can hit 4.0ghz on lower Vcores also seem to be the CPU's that are able to hit higher memory speeds.

I think a big part of this architecture that no one has been talking about is that the data fabric runs at
DRAM clock (half DDR). This fabric is a series of interconnects traced onto the CPU die, and just like all traces on a die, some are cleaner than others. Contaminants, thickness, slight narrowing of the trace, etc. all impact how well electrons move down the trace, and as a result effect what the maximum frequency it can sustain.

Just like with CPU overclocking ability, this is a lottery. On cleaner CPU's we are seeing higher clock speeds, and on those cleaner dies the fabric is cleaner and is able to run at higher frequencies; where on the lower binned CPU's, those that are a little dirtier, the clocks are lower, and the fabric is unable to support higher memory clocks.

So I believe the lottery on Ryzen is not only for CPU clock, but for memory clock as well. We know (or at least strongly suspect) that the higher end CPU's get the better bins, which is why a much greater percentage of 1800x CPU's can hit 4.0Ghz at lower voltages than the 1700x or 1700's. If my theory is correct, it might also suggest that the lower end CPU's are going to struggle to hit the higher DRAM clocks as well.

I would love some feedback on what you guys think.

In my opinion, I think AMD has only binned for leakage. However, I do agree that as overclocking is a lottery (while the x models with higher leakage obviously overclock better), that SOC is also a lottery as well. But from my own experience as well as from others have been posting, I don't think SOC lottery has much to do with x models. My 1700 can do 3200 without refclk/bclk at 14-14-14-32 at 0.96875v SOC. And several others also have 1700's that can do 3200 easily.

But I have also noticed people running high rams through solely refclk/bclk increases but cannot do it the other way. I have a feeling that stresses the SOC less. As a matter of fact, if we don't account for high memory through refclk/bclk, there may be an inverse relationship between overclocking the CPU and memory speeds. Of course I may be wrong.
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post #8516 of 17615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh0 View Post

Yea it was unsettling to say the least, but im glad i wasn't alone when i noticed how high the voltages were at stock. I didn't bother looking too much at the frequency among the cores when the the voltage would spike to obscene levels. But yea it was too aggressive for my liking, I am definitely okay with the performance i am getting now with a moderate voltage. I'm still on high performance and havent fiddled with the processor minimum state as i thought that would override the SENSE MI hardware measures AMD implemented affecting performance. So I thought it'd defeat the purpose, but the frequency is static but i notice the voltage dropping a bit in low load situations. But idk, I can see this being further tweaked in the future. But I definitely agree that it was unsettling seeing the voltage spike that high.
I went and posted a thread on amd forums about it: https://community.amd.com/message/2791746
if anyone else has noticed the high average voltage, and weird behavior with ryzen balance profile with xfr disabled by all means post in the amd forum to help grab their attention. i also flashed back to 1002 and tested it and i saw the same behavior as well. i could understand a peak of 1.52v's but with an average of 1.35v's but peak of 1.5v's with an average of 1.42v's for 20 minutes just browsing reddit when xfr is enabled? that seems a little to excessive. it be nice if amd did some more clarification regarding voltages with xfr and as a whole.
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post #8517 of 17615
1800X are the best binned chips. Don't know the methods AMD uses, but this is my conclusion looking at various scores and sources.
I've had a decent 1700, but it was struggling at 3200C14 and C12 and needed several cycles of mem training whereas my 1800X just boots straight at same frequency and timings.
It can sustain 4GHz at about 1.3V and lower on air cooling (Megahalems with one fan).

Another aspect is the IMC coldbug. With 1700 I had to drop DRAM frequency when on chilled water and it didn't scale so well in CPU frequency, while 1800X happily runs even 3800 on that same chiller.

So in conclusion - max memory clock greatly depends on CPU. For the time being, it seems not every CPU is able to hit 3200 easily.
post #8518 of 17615
Well, my 1800X runs comfortably at 100x40, around 62 degrees C on full load with mostly automatic for the settings. My memory though....not having much luck getting above 2666, though I just upped my DRAM to 1.45 so will see if that will let me get this memory to 2933. Mind you, 2x16 Ripjaws V 3200 memory is Hynix and has NOT been cooperating. I don't have other memory to test if it is the RAM, the CPU, or the motherboard that is the limiting factor right now.
Edited by Targonis - 4/11/17 at 1:55pm
post #8519 of 17615
My 1800x is a funny chip. Will do 3.9 at 1.3v. To do 4 it needs 1.45v and even 1.35 v will change idle temps and load temps by a good amount.
post #8520 of 17615
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecChum View Post

What's most you'd be willing to go on SIV2 voltage?

For daily use I aim for ~1.350V on ProbeIt for VCORE, as I see that as potentially MAX the CPU will see (loosely speaking). The 3.9GHz testing for both were just to see what I'd need for similar stability as 3.8GHz profile on each.

TBH I'm pretty much done on "tweaking" 3.8GHz / 3200MHz C14, the same settings work on 0902 / 1002 / 0079. Next I'm gonna setup 3.7GHz ACB on 2nd CPU, my 1st needed ~50mV offset only.





Then I'll bench games, etc and I reckon I'll see no difference between the 2 and 3.7GHz will be optimal.
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