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post #8651 of 17578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1L3N7D3A7H View Post

@elmor

Bug report on the board lighting. When powered on from cold start, the LEDs do not illuminate. When system is restarted (either from the OS, or ctrl-alt-del after POST), then the LEDs illuminate and work normally.

BIOS 0079
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

That's only on your board, and we haven't been able to reproduce it here. I'm trying to find a board that this happens on so we can debug.

It happens with my board too
post #8652 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS View Post

There's no need to go through all of them. Not from my perspective, anyway.

If you're wondering what happens at level 5, here's a very crude (non-ideal) capture:



With an LLC of 5, if VID is set to 1.40V in UEFI (manual), you'll see load voltages in the ballpark of 1.45V. When releasing the load, the voltage will momentarily peak around 1.47V, before it returns to idle state. The overshoot duration is sub 50uS, but the CPU frequently sees 50~70mv more than what you've set. With "Voffset removed" the VRM has to substantially ramp the voltage when the load hits (will vary somewhat depending upon current), which puts more strain on the FETs. It's just more strenuous on the system to have to ramp voltage by ~50mv while dealing with a transient. How that may impact things down the road is always up in the air. You're playing with percentages/potential for failure, and what that means to you. Whether or not it will happen is difficult to quantify.

If you have sympathy for electronics, you'd likely opt for LLC 1 or 2. At those levels, peak overshoot is constrained 10-20mV over the user-applied VID at durations that likely fall within the tolerance guidelines. Those levels are complimentary to the associated devices. From levels 3 and above, the actual voltage is ramped above the user-defined value, and we start seeing excursions of 30mV+ past the user-set value.

Thanks for this thumb.gifthumb.gif I'm currently using LLC 3, but will bring it down to LLC 2 as per your suggestion and up the VID a bit. I'm mostly waiting for May, when I'll add watercooling to my system and finally start tinkering at lower temperatures.
post #8653 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordzed83 View Post

@elmor
Thanks for Reply ill play around with VDDP and see if that gets my system More stable at lets say 1.0.. While doing my daily Body weight training smile.gif System does not Crash just when running IBT gives an error does not matter what standard volts i up or drop ram/memory OC down.
Played WoW last night for few hours Full stable.


If it goes for SIO Clock Skew there is no point of disabling it if sticking to 1.15 as maximum daily then ??

I'm assuming he is stating you can break 1.2v because of the increase in temps with skew disabled should mitigate damage to the chip (will throttle prior to damage). I've not seen anything that states 1.15v as a max (I have seen 1.2v).
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post #8654 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmor View Post

It is what it is, your theory seems sound. VDDP is similar to VCCIO on Intel platform. From our testing it didn't help much with DRAM, but it's possible it can affect things slightly. I'd recommend the same limits as SOC.

I found it started to help at higher ram speeds, also new 0082 BIOS is working very well at least for me it is. Pretty sure if I were on air and not the cold loop 3800 would be easily attainable.

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post #8655 of 17578
anyone have issues with powering on your system? i got a corsair crystal 570x and the start button does not work at all but if i boot the computer from the mobo start button, i can restart the system with the power button on the case. is this a mobo issue or case? its like the mobo isnt giving power to the case start button unless i boot from the mobo first.
post #8656 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timur Born View Post

I once saw Sense Skew being disabled (or maybe value changed) when the option was set to its default "Auto" settings. Only after a cold-boot did it get enabled again. Try to disable it manually and look at the SIO CPU behavior around the Tctl 51 C threshold again.

If I disable Sense skew, idle temps are +60º (1700X, Silent Loop 280 + Corsair LED running automatically at ~1600rpm). Obvioulsy thats just far from accurate. I need Sense Skew "Auto" and MI offset= 283, to see more reliable reads: ~35-40º idle (fans 400-500rpm), ~60º load (fans ~1000-1100rpm), without OC
Edited by MarkPost - 4/12/17 at 5:06am
post #8657 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS View Post

There's no need to go through all of them. Not from my perspective, anyway.

If you're wondering what happens at level 5, here's a very crude (non-ideal) capture:



With an LLC of 5, if VID is set to 1.40V in UEFI (manual), you'll see load voltages in the ballpark of 1.45V. When releasing the load, the voltage will momentarily peak around 1.47V, before it returns to idle state. The overshoot duration is sub 50uS, but the CPU frequently sees 50~70mv more than what you've set. With "Voffset removed" the VRM has to substantially ramp the voltage when the load hits (will vary somewhat depending upon current), which puts more strain on the FETs. It's just more strenuous on the system to have to ramp voltage by ~50mv while dealing with a transient. How that may impact things down the road is always up in the air. You're playing with percentages/potential for failure, and what that means to you. Whether or not it will happen is difficult to quantify.

If you have sympathy for electronics, you'd likely opt for LLC 1 or 2. At those levels, peak overshoot is constrained 10-20mV over the user-applied VID at durations that likely fall within the tolerance guidelines. Those levels are complimentary to the associated devices. From levels 3 and above, the actual voltage is ramped above the user-defined value, and we start seeing excursions of 30mV+ past the user-set value.

Just for reference, how much of a load change triggered this capture? Is this a 100% -> near idle situation or something lighter?
    
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post #8658 of 17578
@MarkPost: You are likely seeing an offset at work. Does it change when you close all background processes (tray icons) and switch to "Power Safer" profile? Do you see temp jumps?

Using idle fans and pump I currently get about 47 C idle, with offset jumps toward 57 C when some background process induces the +10 offset. My mainboard and radiator are about 27 C and CPU Socket temp is about 30 C. This is realistic for a 4.0 Ghz 1800X using a constant 1.35 V with an ambient temperature of about 21.5 C.
post #8659 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS View Post

There's no need to go through all of them. Not from my perspective, anyway.

If you're wondering what happens at level 5, here's a very crude (non-ideal) capture:



With an LLC of 5, if VID is set to 1.40V in UEFI (manual), you'll see load voltages in the ballpark of 1.45V. When releasing the load, the voltage will momentarily peak around 1.47V, before it returns to idle state. The overshoot duration is sub 50uS, but the CPU frequently sees 50~70mv more than what you've set. With "Voffset removed" the VRM has to substantially ramp the voltage when the load hits (will vary somewhat depending upon current), which puts more strain on the FETs. It's just more strenuous on the system to have to ramp voltage by ~50mv while dealing with a transient. How that may impact things down the road is always up in the air. You're playing with percentages/potential for failure, and what that means to you. Whether or not it will happen is difficult to quantify.

If you have sympathy for electronics, you'd likely opt for LLC 1 or 2. At those levels, peak overshoot is constrained 10-20mV over the user-applied VID at durations that likely fall within the tolerance guidelines. Those levels are complimentary to the associated devices. From levels 3 and above, the actual voltage is ramped above the user-defined value, and we start seeing excursions of 30mV+ past the user-set value.

Much appreciated! How/where does this get measured; is this at the CPU or VRM (my oscope-fu is weak sauce)? Based on some findings in this thread, SVI2 looks to be reading accurately at the CPU core level in regard to voltages and if that is indeed the case, LLC 5 is the only level capable of maintaining a constant voltage (the rest all exhibit vdroop to varying degrees). Is there a better way to measure this (compared to SVI2) for those of us at home lacking a scope?
Edited by madweazl - 4/12/17 at 5:30am
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post #8660 of 17578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raja@ASUS View Post

There's no need to go through all of them. Not from my perspective, anyway.

If you're wondering what happens at level 5, here's a very crude (non-ideal) capture:



With an LLC of 5, if VID is set to 1.40V in UEFI (manual), you'll see load voltages in the ballpark of 1.45V. When releasing the load, the voltage will momentarily peak around 1.47V, before it returns to idle state. The overshoot duration is sub 50uS, but the CPU frequently sees 50~70mv more than what you've set. With "Voffset removed" the VRM has to substantially ramp the voltage when the load hits (will vary somewhat depending upon current), which puts more strain on the FETs. It's just more strenuous on the system to have to ramp voltage by ~50mv while dealing with a transient. How that may impact things down the road is always up in the air. You're playing with percentages/potential for failure, and what that means to you. Whether or not it will happen is difficult to quantify.

If you have sympathy for electronics, you'd likely opt for LLC 1 or 2. At those levels, peak overshoot is constrained 10-20mV over the user-applied VID at durations that likely fall within the tolerance guidelines. Those levels are complimentary to the associated devices. From levels 3 and above, the actual voltage is ramped above the user-defined value, and we start seeing excursions of 30mV+ past the user-set value.

And thats exactly why i listened to Elmor and left mine on auto.

I have mine set to -.1000 as an offset, i peak at about 1.250v in that area and under realbench will drop down to 1.197-1.199 but its been fine no crashes no errors. I may try LLC1 and try 39x instead of 38x but its a long shot, it crashed within 1min of realbench at 39x with those voltages.
    
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