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[Various] Preview of AMD "Naples" server CPU - Page 5

post #41 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lelouch View Post

I want this in me, for reasons.

In want reasons in me... For science
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post #42 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by CriticalOne View Post

It all comes down to how efficient Naples is. Less power consumption is only part of the equation here. Even if Intel is only 5% more efficient, datacenters will still use their CPUs due to savings from operation costs.
That all depends on the datacenter's upgrade cycle and the performance/$ offered by a processor. It may be cheaper to use the less efficient processor if it offers more performance/$, especially if the datacenter runs on a fixed upgrade cycle.
post #43 of 147
Interesting indeed! I'm hoping for a more consumer oriented version of Naples (2 socket motherboard, and say 8 to 16 cores at higher clock speeds) myself. I cannot wait for more info on this!
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post #44 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tex1954 View Post

I want to know the real clock speeds and such. 128 threads at 1GHz is not as good as 64 @ 3GHz.... etc...

Having said that, VERY INTERESTING and I wonder if the pricing will be somewhere in a range normal folks can afford...

biggrin.gif

Zen's efficiency is pretty good, and I'd guess they'll run around 3GHz or so. That's a decent cut in frequency and voltage compared to the near-4GHz chips we have now, so probably half the power per die. Times four dies means about 150-200W for all 32 cores at 3GHz, probably closer to 150W if Intel's and AMD's past server chips are anything to go by. Of course IBM's POWER8 stuff in turbo mode hits like 247W. biggrin.gif

The Infinity Fabric rumor is particularly interesting. Intel's QPI links use I believe 8 PCIe lanes for chip-to-chip communications. If AMD is using 64, then they've got 8 times the bandwidth. I'm also curious about the impact four discrete dies will have compared to a single monolithic 32-core die or two more reasonable 16-core dies. Since the Core Complexes might as well be separate entities, with their own blocks of L3 and I think memory channel (unless that's stuck in the middle between them?), it might not be as big a hit as one might expect. Plus the L3 is a victim buffer and the L2 is pretty sizable, so AMD might not see anything past marginal gains using larger dies.

Smaller ones are certainly cheaper though, and yields are much better. It's an interesting platform already. thumb.gif
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post #45 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

That all depends on the datacenter's upgrade cycle and the performance/$ offered by a processor. It may be cheaper to use the less efficient processor if it offers more performance/$, especially if the datacenter runs on a fixed upgrade cycle.
Almost exactly what I was thinking. Even on a five year cycle, 180 W, 20 % efficiency difference, including cooling and being constantly at 100% usage the difference is $700-800 max. I'd also wager that the average datacenter pays less than average for electricity, and that the efficiency gap is nowhere near that large (and that it might actually be in AMD's favour here).
post #46 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanLoco View Post

Enterprise customers look at performance/$ metrics very seriously. When AMD introduced the original Hammer-based Opteron in 2003, they went from 0 to 25% of the entire enterprise market share by 2005. In that same period they were capturing nearly 50% desktop PC sales with their Athlon 64.

But one thing to point out is when Athlon 64 get released, Intel had nothing remotely competitive. The fact they only had 50% shows how strong Intel can stand, even when AMD has the lead in performance.

AMD was what every enthusiast wanted and system administrators building a new server could easily justify opting for AMD. I'm more shocked that Intel had 75% of the server market.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

You completely underestimate three things...

  • How fast large Data Centers will overhaul their current hardware.
  • How many older Data Centers are being revamped.
  • How many brand new data centers are being built.

When you are looking at the performance increases shown by the R7 1700 in Linux paired with the Naples previews, Zen is a monster of an architecture. Data Centers will flock to the types of performance increase it is offering. Not only that but the one video even demonstrated a data set that Intel couldn't even handle but Naples could - that isn't something to ignore.

EDIT:

AMD just launched a very incredible architecture that is only going to get better. An architecture that offers very real and tangible benefits over the competition even. All at a time when 'Big Data' is exploding at an exponential rate. The concern right now isn't how much data is being generated, but how to process that data in what has become a real-time World.

The shift in market is going to be staggering if Intel can't make serious changes to what they offer.

You're probably right about all those things, but I honestly cannot imagine AMD ever reach Intel's level.

I'm interested in what Naples has to offer and I'm praying for AMD to rise from the ashes, competition is the ultimate win for consumers.

And obviously, I'm not a system administrator, financial advisor or a visionary. I really hope you're right, but no matter how I try, I can't envision AMD ever being a real threat to Intel.

Before I'm called an Intel fanboy, every other comment I've made for the past week has been praising Ryzen and mocking Intel fanboys
post #47 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULLEN View Post

Unless you're saying goodbye to your Xeon's, Intel isn't going anywhere and I cannot imagine despite AMD's amazing come back that things are going to change anytime soon. They have been the budget brand for a decade while Intel has been the high-performance brand.

Maybe if AMD can sustain this lead for the next couple of years they'll be stronger than ever and hopefully become the performance brand again, but if Intel is cooking something funny, we might never see it.

Those datacenters don't care about mindshare or something like that like typical gamers do.
post #48 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travieso View Post

Those datacenters don't care about mindshare or something like that like typical gamers do.

Yeah, I have no idea why that was one of the arguments I used.
post #49 of 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by CULLEN View Post

Unless you're saying goodbye to your Xeon's, Intel isn't going anywhere and I cannot imagine despite AMD's amazing come back that things are going to change anytime soon. They have been the budget brand for a decade while Intel has been the high-performance brand.

Maybe if AMD can sustain this lead for the next couple of years they'll be stronger than ever and hopefully become the performance brand again, but if Intel is cooking something funny, we might never see it.


Well I do remember when all the fastest Supercomputers in the world ran on AMD, not Intel.


Performance/Watt is key in terms of the server market, and AMD nailed it. Honestly Intel should be scared, as this is the market they make most of their money from. AMD could very well end up with a nice slice of the server market with this new platform.


Power usage is a big factor, this was mostly the reason why Bulldozer was pretty much a no go for the server market. Intel has been working on Performance/Watt for a long time, and for AMD to just come out and beat them at their own game. Well Intel will be pushing on the Performance/Watt for their next series of chips, no doubt there.

Not all server workloads are for Multithreaded workloads, so I'm sure AMD has some lower core count higher clock speed chips in the line up too.


Honestly this is probably want Zen was targeted at. AMD was making most of their money from their server cpu sales. Not desktop sales. Which is why Bulldozer really hurt them.
Edited by DzillaXx - 3/7/17 at 4:18pm
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post #50 of 147
I'm too skeptical about AMD's success to write anything constructive and reasonable.

It's exciting to see what will happen, let's hope for the very best!
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