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Ryzen Essential Info with link to owners info DB - Page 31

post #301 of 354
Quote:
Originally Posted by gupsterg View Post

R7 1700

In a heavily-multithreaded “all cores boost” scenario, this user-focused performance tuning permits the 1700 to ramp peak power draw up to its fused package power limit of approximately 90W electrical (note: AM4 reference power limit is 128W). Precision Boost and/or XFR will level off at 72.3tCase°C or ~90W of electrical power (whichever comes first).

R7 1700X/1800X

In a heavily-multithreaded “all cores boost” scenario, this user-focused performance tuning permits the 1700X/1800X to ramp peak power draw up to the AMD Socket AM4 reference limit of 128W. Precision Boost and/or XFR will level off at 60tCase°C or 128W of electrical power (whichever comes first).

If there is a hardware limit on power draw does this mean that my 1700 running at 3.8GHz will actually never reach the same performance as a 1700x at the same clock speed? Are the people saying an overclocked 1700 will match the higher models wrong?

Apologies if this has already been answered, I did look but couldn't find it.
post #302 of 354
Thread Starter 
Not asked before smile.gif but it states in that section:-
Quote:
Notes: above is for "out of box" setup, when we up multipler of CPU past x point CPU goes into OC mode, so "headroom" limitations are removed.

Even the 1700 fuse limit IMO is removed. I have compared my HWbot subs on a 1700 @ upto 4.1GHz in some benches vs an "X" CPU and performance is there wink.gif .

Regardless if PState FID modified or multiplier, on a ratio of:-

i) R7 1700 = 30.25
ii) 1700X = 34.25
iii) 1800X = 36.25

Will = OC mode.
Edited by gupsterg - 5/30/17 at 10:29am
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post #303 of 354
Ah ok. Thanks for the quick answer.

I misread "fused" as meaning there's a physical limit on the power supply but I guess it means that configuration is fused in but can be ignored.
post #304 of 354
Thread Starter 
The information is from reviewers guides PDF. Due to watermark within PDFs I can not share them. In the VID/VCORE Info section is link to 1700X reviewers guide PDF. Most of the information is identical between "them" except the obvious sections.

I have ploughed upto 1.55V into a R7 1700 for some of my HWBot subs. I don't recommend or condone that by sharing the info. I saw no throttling of CPU MHz/W.

I believe the fused power limit maybe there to aid keeping a R7 1700 within specs when PB/XFR is running in "out of box" scenario. I have yet to confirm this with an "official" source/material. Clearly from my OC exploits it is ignored in OC mode wink.gif .
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post #305 of 354
Thread Starter 
@subscribers

OP was updated today.

This has post-flame-small.gifThe Stilt's Ryzen Timings Checker tool post-flame-small.gif in Useful Links biggrin.gif .

The RAM Info section has a new section with post-flame-small.gifThe Stilt's DDR4 timings post-flame-small.gifbiggrin.gif .

These timings have been PHENOMENAL in AIDA64 RAM bench even without bias enabled in C6H UEFI biggrin.gif. Then IBT AVX has reported ~5GFlops higher than my own tweaked 3333MHz setup biggrin.gif . His post is linked in OP and he has used the timings at 3466MHz on his R7 1700 + C6H. I may soon increase my RAM clock if attain such clocks, within constraint of SOC/DDR voltages I'm liking to use.

So this is how my voyage with his timings has been so far.

AIDA64 Screenie (Click to show)




BOOM wipeout in AIDA64 biggrin.gif . Used PC normally, did some gaming as well. Following day some GSAT, 1st a 2.5hr run then 2hrs below.

GSAT Screenie (Click to show)


GSAT speed higher as well, the last AIDA64 image above has past runs speeds.

Next I thought I'd try HCI Memtest.

HCI Memtest (Click to show)


1 error in 1 instance, then just as I was wrapping up I got some more errors frown.gif .

HCI Memtest final (Click to show)


So back to tweaking voltages, etc.

As I wanted to speed up this process of testing, IBT AVX with custom 13312MB was used. I needed a bump in SOC, I went from 1.00625V fail, 1.01250V fail and then I just jumped to 1.025V and pass biggrin.gif .

IBT AVX (Click to show)

1hr Y-Cruncher all tests except FFT pass. (Click to show)


Did ~1hr gaming session. Then ran ~1hr x264, the rig went BSOD 124 just as last loop ended, IMO voltage undershoot occurred as CPU got unloaded resulting in a low voltage to destabilise OC. Zip below has HWiNFO CSV.


X264168mV1.025V1.365V931mV.zip 103k .zip file


So I upped VCORE offset to +175mV.

So 15 loops x264 pass (Click to show)

Repeat rinse with 10 loops (Click to show)

Repeat rinse with 5 loops of IBT AVX (Click to show)


Did a shutdown, waited a while to assess boot up from that state, rerun 2 loops IBT AVX.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Then overnight some HCI Memtest and another night GSAT before I increase RAM MHz.

Attached below is my current setup using The Stilt's DDR4 timings (will update as amendment is offset of +175mV VCORE, ProcODT was 60ohms that The Stilt used.).

3.8GHz_3333MHz_C14_1T_The_Stilts_DDR4.txt 19k .txt file
Edited by gupsterg - 6/4/17 at 8:30am
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post #306 of 354
Thread Starter 
Continuing on from above post, what I did next.

I had a pass in GSAT 2x on The Stilt's timings, 2.5hrs and 2hrs. Then I had memtest fail on me. So I then went about increasing voltages, etc. I then did testing opposite way around ie do IBT, etc before the RAM tests. They seemed AOK. But every time I went with HCI Memtest I had a single error frown.gif . This was doing my nut in as usually my rig will be on at times for days so I want error free. SO since 7am Sunday my rig has not been off, I have kept using it intermittently and constantly tweaking to get HCI Memtest pass error free.

So initially prior to Sunday I had this fail, the instance left running is only one which error'd ( CPU: +168mV SOC: 1.006V DDR: 1.365V). ~3hrs from log data.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Then I did other tests which passed using CPU: +175mV SOC: 1.025V DDR: 1.375V, so it was time for HCI again.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

1 error frown.gif , ~2.5hrs in. Next I went for SOC: 1.05V.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


1 error frown.gif , ~40min in. Next use 60ohms ProcODT as The Stilt had used.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


1 error frown.gif , ~5.5hrs in. Next go to 68ohms.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


1 error frown.gif , ~4hrs in. Next back to 60ohms but tRFC 373 instead of 333.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


1 error frown.gif , ~2hrs 40min in. So now I was thinking I need another approach. So first up view the timings.





Now on 3333MHz using 2800MHz subtimings I have passes in all stress tests. The green box elements common between my tweaked setup and The Stilt's. tCKE I ignored as something I may wanna tweak, then after going through some other timings I concluded to keep as much speed from The Stilt's setup but gain error free HCI run I need to play with tRAS / tRC / tFAW / tRFC.





This is not too behind The Stilt's setup on 3333MHz for me.

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


And we have a pass on HCI Memtest biggrin.gif ~3000%/6.5hrs biggrin.gif .

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)


Now over the next few days going to get SOC down as close as possible to 1V if I can, the DDR to 1.365V should easily happen IMO and I reckon the +6.25mV on CPU I'll be able to remove. Then I'm gonna tweak down tRAS, tRC, tFAW and tRFC.

Tweak_1_3.8_3333_C14ST_setting.txt 19k .txt file
Edited by gupsterg - 6/5/17 at 1:51pm
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post #307 of 354
I can tell you now I understand some peoples pain. I bought a cheapie set of team Delta 3000 CL16-18 and about ready to roast some micro chips. I wanted to see just how bad it can be and honestly it can throw the whole system loopy. Everything is slow USB transfers are a torture. Intermittent driver crashes etc.. etc..
Kind of changes my perspective on some of the posts. It's not them it's the ram. PERIOD
I have it fairly stable but even minor changes and I'm back pulling teeth. I can tell you one thing for sure I should have tested these on my bench prior to installing them in the HTPC redface.gif
EDIT: Hynix AFR IC
EDIT2: back to CMOS clear and auto settings. Had a GFX driver crash during netflix last night. There is the question of the Vid card, it's the Fury I sent for RMA

The follow up. I don't think it's the card. Having that ram in even at default corrupted my driver install since I switched cards at the same time. It also messed up 2 thumb drives that needed to be repaired. Now running about 4 hours straight no "weird" behaviour.
When it doesn't like the ram it really doesn't like it. This kit is moving to the test bench. rolleyes.gif
Edited by Johan45 - 6/7/17 at 5:15pm
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post #308 of 354
Thread Starter 
It's been interesting to get more into RAM timings. I viewed link, then found this info
Quote:
True latency (ns) = clock cycle time (ns) x number of clock cycles (CL)

*clock cycle time (ns) = 1/((the speed your running your ram at/2)/1000)

So basically then I setup rig as below using The Stilt's timings:-


3.8_3200C14S_setting.txt 19k .txt file


HCI Memtest pass.





So I was using manual timings, changing RAM MHz only, so ns will be differing even if timings same.

Clock cycle time = 2400MHz: ~0.83ns, 2800MHz: ~0.71ns, 3200MHz: ~0.63ns.
True Latency using CL14 = 2400MHz: ~11.62ns, 2800MHz: ~9.94ns, 3200MHz: ~8.82ns.



RAW data / XLS which is screenie is above in this ZIP. In ZIP there are screenies of Ryzen Timings Checker. The tRFC is 333 for all setups, but if we apply the calc above we see it matches tRFC (ns) shown in RTC.

tRFC: 333 results in 277.5ns @ 2400MHz, 237.857ns @ 2800MHz, 208.125ns @ 3200MHz.

*** edit ****

3333MHz added.



*** edit 2 ***

3333MHz Fast added.



RAW data zip
Edited by gupsterg - 7/25/17 at 12:26am
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post #309 of 354
as far as i know, you are barking up the wrong tree with memory really. its a bandaid to say the least. AMD controls the QC on what ram models/speeds work. RAM speed is tied to the uncore/cache/IF/'pci-express based communication layer of the CPU'. since we can't directly control anything in relation to that speed we are given the permission to use the ram speeds as a way to indirectly modify that value. Be it 1:1 relationship we don't really know for sure.
while it is nice to have faster and tuned ram for your system, again it seems slightly unnecessary to have to put in faster ram for this interconnect to scale up.
post #310 of 354
OK had a bit more time to work with that ram and the weird vid driver drops. The driver dropping has something to do with either directly or indirectly the Ryzen power plan. I switched to Windows balanced and so far not driver loss. ( knock on wood)
Well it took a bit of work but I finally managed to stabilize them at 3200. Weird thing is Thaiphoon burner lists them as Hynix AFR but AFIK AFR was only 512MB IC and these sticks are definitely single sided so without taking the heat spreaders off I would assume Thaiphoon was wrong and they're actually Hynix MFR. Couldn't get them over 2933 without using a BCLK increase. Believe me I tried. I also found a home for a Cooler Master V-8 I purchased once in a pinch. I really wouldn't recommend this cooler. It might be 2° better than the 212 but noisy and not worth double the price. Still on stock voltage just using an LLC of 2 with a P-State OC



I'd say this is do-able for the cheapest 3000 ram I could find. Less than half the price of samsung ATM

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Bench
(9 items)
 
Intel Bench
(8 items)
 
DVD Player
(5 items)
 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
FX 9370,FX 8350, FX 6350, PII X4 965 ASUS Crosshair V Formula z, ASUS Sabertooth 990... 2x ASUS GTX580 DCUII, ASUS HD 6970 G.Skill Flare 1800, Pi Black 2000 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Kingston Hyperx 3K Phobya Supernova 1260 Koolance 380a Win7 Pro 64 Leadex SuperFlower 1K 
Case
Banchetto 101 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
i7 6700k Asus Maximus VIII Hero Evga GTX 980Ti K|NGP|N G.Skill TridentZ 3600 
Hard DriveCoolingOSPower
Samsung 850 Pro Dragon Extreme F1 Windows 7 / Vista /XP Superflower Leadex 
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Ryzen 5 1600x MSI x370 Titanium ASUS GTX980 DCII G.Skill Trident Z RGB  
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Phanteks Enthoo Luxe 
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