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[Videocardz] AMD Vega with 64 Compute Units spotted - Page 48

post #471 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glottis View Post

In the real world AMD still has to beat GTX1070, GTX1080 and GTX1080Ti, before even attempting to take on Volta.

That statement makes no sense. They can release a single card that beats all three, they don't need to topple them individually. The real question on everyone's lips is where will Vega place itself?
post #472 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Patekar View Post

That statement makes no sense. They can release a single card that beats all three, they don't need to topple them individually. The real question on everyone's lips is where will Vega place itself?
And where the heel is it? It was already shown working in Doom and Battlefield 1 on current Polaris drivers several months ago.
 
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post #473 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

And where the heel is it? It was already shown working in Doom and Battlefield 1 on current Polaris drivers several months ago.
Clock for Zen went from 3GHz last December to >3.6/4.0 stock/turbo in early March. Video card performance also relies more on drivers. You should be able to figure the rest out.
post #474 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Patekar View Post

You're talking about branding. The real scoop, at least for me, is the extravagant cost per mm^2 of nVidia's chips.. and how they increased their profits overnight with the 680 GTX, selling a 300mm^2 die for the price of a 500mm^2 one. The peanut gallery on forums justifying the new cost was hilarious as well... because the new process node cost 100% more than the previous one. Bollocks.

Same goes for intel with their 8 core offerings. Overpriced. Gauging. It all has to do with competition (or lack thereof). Not research and development (intel's been sleeping at the wheel), not manufacturing costs either.. its just lack of competition.

I can afford to buy all that stuff much like most of you, but I refuse to pay that sort of money for the size of what they're selling (and the refresh of a refresh of an old architecture). I'd rather wait for AMD's offering to lower prices to something reasonable, or for a real new architecture to be released..

My next system is Rysen based for sure, the price is more reasonable compared to intel. My next GPU may be Vega as well if it performs to my wants and is priced reasonably. Worse case it'll be something Volta based, which will have mediocre price/perf but at least should feature proper async and other new features for future DX12 titles.
Yeah the cost per dia area goes up, but the thing is the major cost for the product probably isn't manufacturing and die size, it's the R&D. As such raw manufacturing may not be that much more expensive if it has enough volume to pay for the machines but developing a faster chip that isn't a straight parallel upscale does cost something and until AI does it for us it will continue.
The lack of competition definitely is a major part in pricing of current PC parts. Nvidia is betting on that, to have the "fastest" and sell it for the most they can, they refuse to make products and sell them for reasonable prices, as such they don't bother with consoles etc. as they are not high enough profit per unit for them. They + Intel + Apple play the "premium card" while it lasts.

Will see how VEGA does once it launches but I bet it will be too expensive for the most to buy, as in more expensive than a 1070, where even a 1070 is too much for most. $200-250 is the sweetspot. Above that it's double the price yet barely +50% performance and out of reach for most builds.
post #475 of 566
If Vega is as solid as Polaris and Ryzen have been, I might build my first AMD/Radeon rig since 2010. Can't wait. biggrin.gif
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post #476 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackCY View Post

Yeah the cost per dia area goes up, but the thing is the major cost for the product probably isn't manufacturing and die size, it's the R&D. As such raw manufacturing may not be that much more expensive if it has enough volume to pay for the machines but developing a faster chip that isn't a straight parallel upscale does cost something and until AI does it for us it will continue.
The lack of competition definitely is a major part in pricing of current PC parts. Nvidia is betting on that, to have the "fastest" and sell it for the most they can, they refuse to make products and sell them for reasonable prices, as such they don't bother with consoles etc. as they are not high enough profit per unit for them. They + Intel + Apple play the "premium card" while it lasts.

Will see how VEGA does once it launches but I bet it will be too expensive for the most to buy, as in more expensive than a 1070, where even a 1070 is too much for most. $200-250 is the sweetspot. Above that it's double the price yet barely +50% performance and out of reach for most builds.
The profit in the high-end market makes up for smaller volume and exceeds the revenue of the small and mid segments. Last year, 43% of Nvidia's revenue was from 1080-Titan/Quadro/Tesla sales. That's huge.
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post #477 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

The profit in the high-end market makes up for smaller volume and exceeds the revenue of the small and mid segments. Last year, 43% of Nvidia's revenue was from 1080-Titan/Quadro/Tesla sales. That's huge.
I think profit is the keyword there, because NVidia did little to no R&D on Pascal. So yeah, despite the smaller volume (vs $300 segment), the premiums are almost entirely profit after covering fixed fab costs.

Where it's different for AMD with Vega is that they may have to sink a significant portion of the GPU revenue into R&D, since it is a new arch and has additional hardware like HBCC. But meh anyhew, it'll be standard costs leading back to standard pricing... unlike this relentless crazy NVidia milking without competition.
 
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post #478 of 566
If Big Vega is somehow competitive with 1080 Ti, AMD better release Mid-Range/Little Vega right on it's heels or risk losing the entire mid-range slot altogether. The 580 is in no way competitive with the 1080 or the 1070 for that matter. Do you guys think there's any chance of AMD rolling all of Vega out at the same time since they've taken so long to get to market? Kind of a shock and awe strategy. Or do we think that Big Vega will just be a 1080 alternative that's years late to the party and rest won't matter?
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post #479 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by breenemeister View Post

If Big Vega is somehow competitive with 1080 Ti, AMD better release Mid-Range/Little Vega right on it's heels or risk losing the entire mid-range slot altogether. The 580 is in no way competitive with the 1080 or the 1070 for that matter. Do you guys think there's any chance of AMD rolling all of Vega out at the same time since they've taken so long to get to market? Kind of a shock and awe strategy. Or do we think that Big Vega will just be a 1080 alternative that's years late to the party and rest won't matter?

That is what it's looking like, based on the shown Doom and BF1 demos and the compute benchmarks. RyZen definitely was not a shock and awe in terms of performance. Considering the whole of AMD is constrained financially, Big Vega will likely not topple Pascal flagship.
 
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post #480 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

I think profit is the keyword there, because NVidia did little to no R&D on Pascal. So yeah, despite the smaller volume (vs $300 segment), the premiums are almost entirely profit after covering fixed fab costs.

Where it's different for AMD with Vega is that they may have to sink a significant portion of the GPU revenue into R&D, since it is a new arch and has additional hardware like HBCC. But meh anyhew, it'll be standard costs leading back to standard pricing... unlike this relentless crazy NVidia milking without competition.
How can you say there wasn't any R & D done on Pascal? The advancements made from Pascal to maxwell might not have been substantial but someone has to do it and get paid for it. The validation work to get it ready for production can't be ignored as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

That is what it's looking like, based on the shown Doom and BF1 demos and the compute benchmarks. RyZen definitely was not a shock and awe in terms of performance. Considering the whole of AMD is constrained financially, Big Vega will likely not topple Pascal flagship.

There hasn't been any BF1 Vega demos only DOOM and there's some evidence that the card wasn't running at full tilt. Although air cooled, the majority of intake/outtake paths were tapped and it was still managing +15% more than a Fury X.
Edited by Tobiman - 4/21/17 at 11:52am
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