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[Videocardz] AMD Vega with 64 Compute Units spotted - Page 49

post #481 of 566
I think the problem with Vega is going be the price. Especially in the beginning. HBM2 alone won't be cheap.

There will be a big leap in price and performance from RX 580 -> Cheapest Vega..
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post #482 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

How can you say there wasn't any R & D done on Pascal? The advancements made from Pascal to maxwell might not have been substantial but someone has to do with and get paid for it. The validation work to get it ready for production can't be ignored as well.

There is also significant R&D costs on new rolls of toilet paper. Obviously pascal is a die-shrieked maxwell, so yes they had to find out how to get it working on a new process, but Nvidia didn't do anything as far as architectural improvements, infact, in clock for clock comparisons, pascal has lower IPC than maxwell
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post #483 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

How can you say there wasn't any R & D done on Pascal? The advancements made from Pascal to maxwell might not have been substantial but someone has to do with and get paid for it. The validation work to get it ready for production can't be ignored as well.
There hasn't been any BF1 Vega demos only DOOM and there's some evidence that the card wasn't running at full tilt. Although air cooled, the majority of intake/outtake paths were tapped and it was still managing +15% more than a Fury X.

src: http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-rx-vega-gpu-architecture-features/
Quote:
A demo was used to illustrate the capabilities of Vega by running Battlefield 1 (being powered off a Vega server over cloud) at 1080p.
 
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post #484 of 566
Quote:
And how exactly were you able to derive it's performance from that demo? At least, for DOOM, people had hands-on and could actually see fps and touch the hardware.
Edited by Tobiman - 4/21/17 at 12:31pm
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post #485 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

And how exactly were you able to derive it's performance from that demo? At least, for DOOM, people had a hands on and could actually see fps and touch the hardware.
My point is that it was rendering a production game and shown to a live audience. Doom and the compute benchmarks are much better indicators of likely performance.
 
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post #486 of 566
So, people really think that vega will replace polaris in midrange?? I dont think so, probably vega will start at fury X level and up!
    
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post #487 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by manitox View Post

So, people really think that vega will replace polaris in midrange?? I dont think so, probably vega will start at fury X level and up!
I think they were referring to a lower core part to fight the 1070/1080.
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post #488 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Magnificent logical leap/strawman. Where did I speak of "increased price"? 7970 was a flagship. It occupied a specific pricepoint set by an nvidia flagship of last gen-it had every right to do so based on performance. 7970 got replaced as an AMD flagship by 290X AGAIN on the same pricepoint (550)- 280X by that time was selling at about 50% of its launch MSRP as 7970, as it was moved to midrange. The rest are either conjecture ( you cannot talk about missed opportunities unless you know optimum sale points etc ) or nonsense.

BS.

Not a strawman argument at all. Your doing that right now by distorting your argument. Just because you didn't say it, doesn't mean the 7970 is not more expensive than the gtx 580. You said the 7970 justified it's price because it was faster than the gtx 580....and this is a poor argument because it leads to continually more expensive products. This is because if you base your product price only after last gens flagship(aka the gtx 580), your not passing any of the savings of the die shrink and your simply pocketing the rest as profit. Because die's start off so much smaller for new flagships, there is significant saving for cost of production. AMD didn't do this and tried to increase the pricing of the 7970. In addition because everything was priced relative to the 7970(e.g 350 dollar, 7870), there was very little change in price to performance for consumers.

And this is why it leads to price increases. you need to take into account the savings from the node shrink in some manner and pass this onto the consumer. If you don't and just take into account performance, you can price your products to the moon.

It was by this logic that AMD's marketshare collapsed and AMD mostly deserved the financial beating it took. It wasn't finfet yet and perhaps the most important issue, AMD brand value vs nvidia was not nearly good enough that it could get away with this price increase.

What AMD move was anti consumer because because when the value brand stops being the value brand, expect a big leap in prices. And looking at the timing of AMD pricing, it was absolutely the stupidest thing they ever did in the videocard market.

And this is the absolute proof that the 7970 was priced too high.

Lets do a comparison of two situations where AMD handled the market correctly and where they didn't. Lets look at the 5870. Faster than a gtx 285 and launched at 5% cheaper than it but more significantly, the difference in performance was bigger than the gtx 580 and the 7970. How did the market react to it compared to the 7970 launch? AMD gained marketshare, profits were better and after the launch of the gtx 480, prices were stable for the 5870 even those it had been on the market longer. AMD cards sold so well that it made Nvidia's partners jump ship and some partners like BFG went bankrupt. 5870 and the 5xxx sales were fantastic.

Compare this to the launch of the 7970, market adoption was very slow. AMD made little gains in marketshare and shortly after the launch of the gtx 680, the market had crawled so much on the 7970 that street pricing had fell to 399(a big 150 drop), cards were still not selling and AMD had to throw in 2 triple AAA games to get sales going. AMD goodwill it had created with the consumers was tossed in the trash and even AMD owners were getting Nvidia cards.

If AMD had priced their product taking into account their own die size, the smaller jump in performance over last gen, the timing of Nvidia launching products soon and it's own brand value, they would be in a much better position with marketshare and sales. And this is why AMD priced their products incorrectly at the 7970 launch.
post #489 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caradine View Post

There is also significant R&D costs on new rolls of toilet paper. Obviously pascal is a die-shrieked maxwell, so yes they had to find out how to get it working on a new process, but Nvidia didn't do anything as far as architectural improvements, infact, in clock for clock comparisons, pascal has lower IPC than maxwell

Pascal is not a die shrunk Maxwell, they did do some arch work otherwise the IPC would be the exact same, the work they did was adding features, they did some work centered around making Async compute work better on Pascal (not good but not bad to the point where they disabled the ability to use it on a driver level like with Maxwell) and go through the arch with a comb and remove frequency bottlenecks which came at the cost of some of their IPC but the frequency uplift was well worth it and is technically overall an arch improvement since the 0-5% IPC regression is completely negated by the 200-400mhz they gained.
post #490 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

BS.

Not a strawman argument at all. Your doing that right now by distorting your argument. Just because you didn't say it, doesn't mean the 7970 is not more expensive than the gtx 580. You said the 7970 justified it's price because it was faster than the gtx 580....and this is a poor argument because it leads to continually more expensive products. This is because if you base your product price only after last gens flagship(aka the gtx 580), your not passing any of the savings of the die shrink and your simply pocketing the rest as profit. Because die's start off so much smaller for new flagships, there is significant saving for cost of production. AMD didn't do this and tried to increase the pricing of the 7970. In addition because everything was priced relative to the 7970(e.g 350 dollar, 7870), there was very little change in price to performance for consumers.

And this is why it leads to price increases. you need to take into account the savings from the node shrink in some manner and pass this onto the consumer. If you don't and just take into account performance, you can price your products to the moon.

It was by this logic that AMD's marketshare collapsed and AMD mostly deserved the financial beating it took. It wasn't finfet yet and perhaps the most important issue, AMD brand value vs nvidia was not nearly good enough that it could get away with this price increase.

What AMD move was anti consumer because because when the value brand stops being the value brand, expect a big leap in prices. And looking at the timing of AMD pricing, it was absolutely the stupidest thing they ever did in the videocard market.

And this is the absolute proof that the 7970 was priced too high.

Lets do a comparison of two situations where AMD handled the market correctly and where they didn't. Lets look at the 5870. Faster than a gtx 285 and launched at 5% cheaper than it but more significantly, the difference in performance was bigger than the gtx 580 and the 7970. How did the market react to it compared to the 7970 launch? AMD gained marketshare, profits were better and after the launch of the gtx 480, prices were stable for the 5870 even those it had been on the market longer. AMD cards sold so well that it made Nvidia's partners jump ship and some partners like BFG went bankrupt. 5870 and the 5xxx sales were fantastic.

Compare this to the launch of the 7970, market adoption was very slow. AMD made little gains in marketshare and shortly after the launch of the gtx 680, the market had crawled so much on the 7970 that street pricing had fell to 399(a big 150 drop), cards were still not selling and AMD had to throw in 2 triple AAA games to get sales going. AMD goodwill it had created with the consumers was tossed in the trash and even AMD owners were getting Nvidia cards.

If AMD had priced their product taking into account their own die size, the smaller jump in performance over last gen, the timing of Nvidia launching products soon and it's own brand value, they would be in a much better position with marketshare and sales. And this is why AMD priced their products incorrectly at the 7970 launch.

Dude, can you even read? You go on a tirade talking about gradually more expensive cards when 580 3GB, 7970 and 290X all launched at the same price. Just stop.
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