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[Videocardz] AMD Vega with 64 Compute Units spotted - Page 51

post #501 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

Lol that is some good BS that is pulled out right somewhere.

Yes because a 200 mm^2 polaris defines the whole next decade for AMD. Gotcha.
post #502 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

The only people who tried to compare to justify the price increase of the 7970 were AMD fanboys, particularly the old 3gb excuse. Since there was no 7970 cheaper than the standard gtx 580, it was more expensive.

Don't forget the mining craze that inflated AMD card prices at retail. The MSRP was lower than the selling price.
post #503 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by caswow View Post

there wont be any consumer volta that will beat an 1080ti until next year april.
Exactly, releasing Volta early seems to be Nvidia scrambling to topple AMD and exercise utter dominance in the deep learning space which is still relatively new, unlike in workstations where too much reliance on CUDA is hurting competition.
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post #504 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by tajoh111 View Post

The only people who tried to compare to justify the price increase of the 7970 were AMD fanboys, particularly the old 3gb excuse. Since there was no 7970 cheaper than the standard gtx 580, it was more expensive.

But even more so, you have to understand the market dynamics. Your completely ignoring this and think there is no consequences for the 7970 pricing higher than the gtx 580, even the 3gb no one bought. More specifically you think the 7970 and gtx 580 operate in an absolute bubble where things like brand value, competition and timing don't matter. They do and this why the 7970 was priced badly. Need proof.

You don't need to look far and simply have to look at the absolute failure in sales and losses in marketshare for AMD when 7970 was priced at $550 and the 7870 was $350.


There is no getting around it, AMD priced too high for being a midsized chip that didn't really blow the competition out of the water while being the brand name associated with value.

The 290x pricing was priced right at $550 because the competition cards were already shown and priced more expensive. Compared to the $650 Nvidia was charging, the $550 price played into AMD strength that being the brand with better price to performance.

Like it or not, AMD and Nvidia cannot operate on the same pricing principles, the sooner you understand this, the sooner you will realize your original rational is wrong.

We cannot discuss while you still deny the facts and replace them with inaccuracies and conjecture. Moving on.
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post #505 of 566
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Originally Posted by grndzro View Post

Try actually reading and understanding what others type. He said "little to no R/D"
Yes, and there is no evidence for that, whatsoever. Not sure what you're correcting either. "Little to no" is not much different from "not any". The idea that Pascal had "no R&D" associated with it is crazy. Even saying that it had "little" R&D is baseless; if NV is to be believed, it was pretty expensive.
post #506 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by mouacyk View Post

I think profit is the keyword there, because NVidia did little to no R&D on Pascal. So yeah, despite the smaller volume (vs $300 segment), the premiums are almost entirely profit after covering fixed fab costs.

Where it's different for AMD with Vega is that they may have to sink a significant portion of the GPU revenue into R&D, since it is a new arch and has additional hardware like HBCC. But meh anyhew, it'll be standard costs leading back to standard pricing... unlike this relentless crazy NVidia milking without competition.

You didnt see the presentation of Titan X?

Huang himself said that the card took several thousand man-hours to create. Thats one card and one chip. Pascal have many.
This is the key reason why Nvidia can rlease GPU after GPU while AMD is left behind.

Nvidia have the workforce and the resources to make the engineering of a graphic card happen faster than AMD.
Hopefully if AMD manage to make profits again with Ryzen and Vega, AMD can keep up again once they free up engineers from the CPU department and have more money to spend.

AMD have been cought in a bad cycle and that have not been easy to get out of.
post #507 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

Yes, and there is no evidence for that, whatsoever. Not sure what you're correcting either. "Little to no" is not much different from "not any". The idea that Pascal had "no R&D" associated with it is crazy. Even saying that it had "little" R&D is baseless; if NV is to be believed, it was pretty expensive.

The point is he said "little to no" for a reason. If he meant "no research" then he probably would have typed that instead.
post #508 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

You didnt see the presentation of Titan X?

Huang himself said that the card took several thousand man-hours to create. Thats one card and one chip. Pascal have many.
This is the key reason why Nvidia can rlease GPU after GPU while AMD is left behind.

Nvidia have the workforce and the resources to make the engineering of a graphic card happen faster than AMD.
Hopefully if AMD manage to make profits again with Ryzen and Vega, AMD can keep up again once they free up engineers from the CPU department and have more money to spend.

AMD have been cought in a bad cycle and that have not been easy to get out of.

Here is the thing. Since AMD took over ATi they have lost to Intel and ATi did not have 8800 GTX match. Ever since AMD has been holding back GPU market because of their weak CPU. If Zen captures 10-20% market back from Intel, Nvidia is done for. They cant compete with AMD anymore.
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post #509 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by grndzro View Post

The point is he said "little to no" for a reason. If he meant "no research" then he probably would have typed that instead.
He did type that. "No" is a subset of "little to no". Regardless the implication was that is was insubstantial, which there's no evidence for.

That being said, several thousand man-hours, how much is that really? It's presumably below 10,000. 10,000 man hours is a month of work for 63 people, or two months for 32 people (assuming 4 40-hour work weeks per person per month). Doesn't seem like all that much. NV does employ 10,000. Not sure how many of those are engineers.

For reference, it took 70,000 man-hours to produce a mere 49 seconds of the Mustafar Lightsaber duel in Star Wars episode 3.
post #510 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLeakStuff View Post

You didnt see the presentation of Titan X?

Huang himself said that the card took several thousand man-hours to create. Thats one card and one chip. Pascal have many.
This is the key reason why Nvidia can rlease GPU after GPU while AMD is left behind.

Nvidia have the workforce and the resources to make the engineering of a graphic card happen faster than AMD.
Hopefully if AMD manage to make profits again with Ryzen and Vega, AMD can keep up again once they free up engineers from the CPU department and have more money to spend.

AMD have been cought in a bad cycle and that have not been easy to get out of.

Nvidia also isn't burdened by a CPU division which, up until Ryzen, has been an albatross around AMD's neck making investment into the graphics division difficult. There's no question that the development of Ryzen over the past few years has been the priority for AMD as a company so they have had to make due in the GPU division with whatever scraps were left over. Nvidia doesn't have to worry about any of that and also has the luxury of being much more profitable as well. AMD bit off a lot more than they could chew when they acquired ATi and now they are a struggling company that has to consistently produce not only great CPU's but great GPU's as well. That is not a burden either Intel or Nvidia has to deal with.

Frankly I'm amazed at how well AMD has done in terms of releasing decent products in both markets over the years. None of this is to make excuses for AMD but it is an important thing to factor in when dumping on them for "not competing" as I see so many people saying.
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