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[Videocardz] AMD Vega with 64 Compute Units spotted - Page 52

post #511 of 566
AMD needs their cards to be more competitive in the server and workstation segment. Those guys will pay for development costs and support. Gaming cards just help pad the bottom line. AMD made GCN to capture the workstation/server market but Nvidia's CUDA is so deeply entrenched that it's going to be very hard.

On the other hand, deep learning/AI is a market that AMD can make a strike back since it's relatively new although Nvidia is already a few steps ahead.
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post #512 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

AMD needs their cards to be more competitive in the server and workstation segment. Those guys will pay for development costs and support. Gaming cards just help pad the bottom line. AMD made GCN to capture the workstation/server market but Nvidia's CUDA is so deeply entrenched that it's going to be very hard.

On the other hand, deep learning/AI is a market that AMD can make a strike back since it's relatively new although Nvidia is already a few steps ahead.

just remember that being "competitive" in a market doesn't mean pubstomping Nvidia's GPUs.
post #513 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic1337 View Post

just remember that being "competitive" in a market doesn't mean pubstomping Nvidia's GPUs.
Absolutely agree but AMD is really struggling with perception in the workstation space. I was reading on twitter a while back that some software developers refused to allow AMD to optimize with Opencl stating that they had to find a way to re-engineer CUDA.
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post #514 of 566
developers prioritize CUDA because its more convenient and easier to use, OpenCL is a PITA to use in comparison.

to point out, AMD needs not to insist on using OpenCL and just switch to CUDA-compatibility layer.
they could then concentrate on optimizing CUDA codes to run better on their hardware.

edit: its like windows vs linux, its simply easier to run windows VM within linux than running windows apps natively on linux.
Edited by epic1337 - 4/23/17 at 6:03am
post #515 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defoler View Post

Oh so you are saying that when the processing manufacturer is young (like the brand new 14/16nm manufacturing process), and when AMD are doing it, it is absolutely fine, but nvidia are doing it, oh hell no they are the devil, right..

Sure. I'm convinced...
I see.
So you are saying that 40% increase in performance from maxwell to pascal is a rebrand and a minor improvement?
I guess that is why you are still rocking the 7970 from AMD. Because its performance is still very much on par with the mid range cards by being maybe 20% of their performance as of today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuivamaa View Post

Dude, can you even read? You go on a tirade talking about gradually more expensive cards when 580 3GB, 7970 and 290X all launched at the same price. Just stop.

post #516 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Nvidia also isn't burdened by a CPU division which, up until Ryzen, has been an albatross around AMD's neck making investment into the graphics division difficult. There's no question that the development of Ryzen over the past few years has been the priority for AMD as a company so they have had to make due in the GPU division with whatever scraps were left over. Nvidia doesn't have to worry about any of that and also has the luxury of being much more profitable as well. AMD bit off a lot more than they could chew when they acquired ATi and now they are a struggling company that has to consistently produce not only great CPU's but great GPU's as well. That is not a burden either Intel or Nvidia has to deal with.

Frankly I'm amazed at how well AMD has done in terms of releasing decent products in both markets over the years. None of this is to make excuses for AMD but it is an important thing to factor in when dumping on them for "not competing" as I see so many people saying.

This is really on point. AMD is just now starting to get back on track from the difficulties associated with the ATi merger. Let's also not forget that AMD was originally targeting nVidia, but the deal fell through when the big C-suite players couldn't agree on who would sit where in the sandbox. Remember the days when nVidia was THE major chipset partner for AMD mobos?

In any event, AMD does have a huge burden in fighting a battle with two different fronts, which their respective competitors are free of. Worst of all, AMD's war chest is fractional compared to said competitors. If AMD had the cash and consistent revenues a decade ago, acquiring ATi could have produced some extremely compelling products long ago, but they were house rich/cash poor, especially after paying too much for ATi. It really is nothing short of amazing that AMD has engineered the products they have since then. The handicaps and disadvantages were profound, and taking the gamble on 15h possibly could have cost them the entire farm.

More on topic, all signs point to Vega being good. nVidia releasing Volta early certainly must be interpreted as indicative of such. Disregarding the major architectural changes and IPC improvements (which are complete unknowns at this point), the base hardware leaks, based upon current GCN performance metrics, would extrapolate to Vega being somewhere between the 1080 and 1080Ti, closer to the Ti. If Vega was a dud and Ti level performance was the zenith for this iteration, AMD would have released it by now. They haven't, instead opting to continue working on it and issuing a Polaris refresh.
All of these factors combined tell me that Vega is going to definitively beat Pascal, and be very, very competitive with Volta.
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post #517 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by btupsx View Post

In any event, AMD does have a huge burden in fighting a battle with two different fronts, which their respective competitors are free of.

The Xeon Phi wasn't made for fun. Both intel and nVidia are fighting in the HPC and deep learning. Google also has some custom silicon for deep learning as well. Volta is coming soon but not for gaming. We've taught nVidia that we'd pay top dollar for the scraps. Like with Pascal, expect a Volta Tesla and eventually a 300 mm^2 die sold at traditional 500+ mm^2 pricing. Hell, maybe they'll add another 50$ MSRP. Since it'll be more expensive it will be celebrated as high tech by their fans.

nVidia are the Apple of GPUs.. thanks to marketing they can sell anything at high prices. Its been like this for 10 years in fact. The only difference now is ATI/AMD are barely competing. But even if nVidia rebrands Pascal and overclocks it for terrible thermals and power, people will still buy it thinking its the next big innovation.
post #518 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Patekar View Post

The Xeon Phi wasn't made for fun. Both intel and nVidia are fighting in the HPC and deep learning. Google also has some custom silicon for deep learning as well. Volta is coming soon but not for gaming. We've taught nVidia that we'd pay top dollar for the scraps. Like with Pascal, expect a Volta Tesla and eventually a 300 mm^2 die sold at traditional 500+ mm^2 pricing. Hell, maybe they'll add another 50$ MSRP. Since it'll be more expensive it will be celebrated as high tech by their fans.

nVidia are the Apple of GPUs.. thanks to marketing they can sell anything at high prices. Its been like this for 10 years in fact. The only difference now is ATI/AMD are barely competing. But even if nVidia rebrands Pascal and overclocks it for terrible thermals and power, people will still buy it thinking its the next big innovation.

The last point is incorrect.

Nvidia gotten to the point it has with it's aggressive release schedule and general lack of rebranding over the years. People would hardly think overclocking at the expense of thermals would be innovative from either company.

It didn't work for Intel during the p4 generation(AMD gained a huge amount of marketshare during this period) and fermi gen1 was not well received. Fermi2 raised performance and lowered power consumption and was a much better card from Nvidia. But nonetheless, it was not over celebrated as the next big innovation.

What Nvidia has done post fermi, is delivery a more compelling offerings that offer similar if not better performance per dollar upon launch compared to AMD offerings, better efficiency and add the Nvidia brand it makes a sound purchase for anyone. This launch superiority is the reason why Nvidia cards get such fanfare since this is the time when most of the discussion about how good the product is.

The gtx 970 launch for example, took the performance of 550/699 products(which were still selling at those prices) and brought it down to 329 dollars on the same node. In addition, it used half the power of the 290x and about 50 percent less than the gtx 780 and 780 ti's. Add the terrible launch of the r9 285 and should not be surprise that the gtx 970 reviews were spectacular and everyone was hopping to get one. The memory issue came to light after but this hardly dulled the launch. This is because most people bought the gtx 970 for its price to performance and this didn't change with the memory issue.

The fact that Nvidia launches new products and new chips, while AMD rebrands most of it's lineup just compounds this factor. Nvidia has treated AMD like a competent threat and aggressively launched products, not easing up like Intel. When your launch new GPU's against no competition or against rebrands, your going to be celebrated as innovative.

If Nvidia launched a card with polaris like performance and performance per watt like the rx580, they would be laughed at too, much more than AMD. This is because there is even greater expectations for performance for the market leader. When the budget company doesn't do well, it's understandable because of lack of resources. When a rich company does it, it has no excuse. A product would just be a failure.

If Nvidia pushed a 2100mhz gtx 1060, called it a 2060 and it had 8 percent better performance than a gtx 1060, but had the power consumption of a gtx 1080 ti, most of the press would be confused, Nvidia would be laughed at, and most people would be questioning why would they release such a card.

With AMD, most people understand AMD has limited resources. The biggest strike against this launch is people want vega, not a polaris rebrand and that this polaris is coming at the same cost as the original rx480. Another qualm is that it does have bad power consumption for this level of performance. But this is hard to skirt around.
Edited by tajoh111 - 4/24/17 at 6:03pm
post #519 of 566
Could we see a may 5 release for Vega since they've been hyping it with Prey? When are custom AIBs usually released after reference cards?
post #520 of 566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

Nvidia also isn't burdened by a CPU division which, up until Ryzen, has been an albatross around AMD's neck making investment into the graphics division difficult. There's no question that the development of Ryzen over the past few years has been the priority for AMD as a company so they have had to make due in the GPU division with whatever scraps were left over. Nvidia doesn't have to worry about any of that and also has the luxury of being much more profitable as well. AMD bit off a lot more than they could chew when they acquired ATi and now they are a struggling company that has to consistently produce not only great CPU's but great GPU's as well. That is not a burden either Intel or Nvidia has to deal with.

Frankly I'm amazed at how well AMD has done in terms of releasing decent products in both markets over the years. None of this is to make excuses for AMD but it is an important thing to factor in when dumping on them for "not competing" as I see so many people saying.

Would be better if they stop overhyping such as fury "overclocker" dream. It is so obvious it is a direct lie.
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