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Ryzen vs Intel (not just gaming)

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 
I have some questions.... Everyone is comparing Ryzen (AMD AM4) with Intel (mostly Kaby Lake). Some reviewers are saying that many of the Ryzen chips are beating Intel but particularly the Broadwell generation. Although, when you compare the prices, the Ryzen is doing well vs Intel, too and when you compare cores - Intel Kaby Lake is outperforming it based on that - but only by a small margin?

But, what about the extra cores/threads comparisons and not just gaming but the impact or effect of the extra cores/threads that Ryzen has in some comparisons to Intel (Kaby Lake)?

If you want something that is all-purpose and the extra threads/cores come in handy, is Amd Ryzen the better choice in a future upgrade?

I am looking at an upgrade / new build down the road.... hopefully late spring, early summer. By then, we should know about Ryzen 5 (and 3?) sufficiently and whether it's a good buy.

I am interested in the power/ temperatures of these processors/systems as I think any of them would be suitable for gaming - for me, anyway.

Is there any good estimates/guesses of what these temps/power consumption might be for the Ryzen 5 chips? What's the temps for the Ryzen 7 1700? Compared to Kaby Lake chips?

I want something for everything - video editing, tons of tabs open, using programs like photoshop, gimp etc. etc.... so, the extra threads (cores, too?) would be of a particular benefit, right?

I think a 65 watt chip would be ideal (or no more than 65). So, I'd be comparing the Ryzen 5 1500X and 1600 with Intel Kaby Lake i5-7400 - 7600?
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post #2 of 17
You'd get a couple of extra cores with the 1600, yeah? Would be helpful on the video editing type tasks, provided the software beign used will make use of it
post #3 of 17
Just be clear, Ryzen 3 is slotted to be used for the APUs primarily. I'm betting there will be a 4-core only CPU version, but I doubt it'd be worth grabbing since the Ryzen 5 1400 is clearly the best purchase for the masses. tongue.gif

The greater number of cores and lower power usage would definitely benefit you over the barely-higher IPC performance from the relatively priced i5 lineup. There's no real reason to bother going for an i5 anymore with Ryzen right around the corner.
     
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post #4 of 17
You have to consider many issues:
  • do you have high/low budget? If your budget is low, you will be probably more than happy to use Ryzen as it will cost less. If you have higher budget, you may be tempted to buy the most expensive Intel motherboard/cpu/ram and end up spending more.
  • do you need 8 cores now or its more a reserve for the future?
  • do you prefer fast 1-4 thread performance or multi thread performance?
  • do you want to use very fast memory (DDR4 3600-4000) or are happy with DDR4 2400-3200 with Ryzen?
  • how much RAM do you need? Ryzen seems to suffer from lower memory performance when all 4 slots are filled. It cannot maintain high frequencies. Very few motherboard + ram combinations seem to be capable of running 4x DDR4 3200. Also happens when double ranked memory is used.
  • do you have time to wait for further Ryzen revisions which will fix discovered issues? (FMA3 bug, possibly faster memory access)

I considered whether to go with Ryzen or Core i7 7700K and decided that for my usage i7 7700K will be more than sufficient even though more expensive. I really wanted to support AMD and buy Ryzen, but I can't wait 3-6 months for things to stabilize.

The problem with Ryzen per CCX cache (8MB for each cluster) and subsequent need to patch Windows scheduler is more serious than people think. In practice threads may get started/stopped. Kernel cannot predict on which CCX thread should be started to use CCX cache efficiently. Or there may be a fixed thread pool and work may be handed over to threads (different kind of work, not dependant on thread id). In this case Kernel also cannot do anything about this and work may end up on wrong CCX. This problem will sadly affect also 4 core Ryzens as they will be 2x2.
post #5 of 17
Thread Starter 
Did Intel have as many issues? I read that Ryzen is considered 1st generation and Kaby Lake is 7th. Is that accurate?

I want to use virtualization so VMWare and Virtualbox but I don't know if my choice has to depend on that. 8 cores would be nice but do I need it? I was told to save up for the cpu I want instead of getting a budget cpu and then upgrading.

I think I'd invest in at least 3000 DDR4 Memory min. since I read that Ryzen performs better with faster RAM. Intel/Kaby Lake will be fine with faster RAM but I might need a decent Z270 mobo? I thought of going ATX or mATX so I can have the option of 4 memory slots. Surely, AMD will iron out the wrinkles allowing that? I would like to choose AMD like you said and can probably wait but the issues sound like a large number so what's the probability of them getting solved? Intel sounds more expensive and you get less cores but more stable and less headaches?
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post #6 of 17
When using Ryzen for virtualization one will quickly run into memory limit. For virtualization you may want at least 32GB RAM with option to 64GB in the future. Very problematic with current AMD boards and 1st gen Ryzen to run that at decent speeds. You also probably want to run multiple SSDs in such case (at least 2). So you need board with 2x M.2 or 1x M.2 + 1x U.2 (and use adapter to convert it to M.2) where both can be used at the same time without performance hit.

Ryzen is probably best for encoding/rendering if you don't need lot of fast RAM. If you want Ryzen and lot of fast RAM, it seems its better to wait for subsequent Ryzen revisions and possibly new Ryzen boards.

It also seems that no board can run M.2 SSDs in RAID 1 regardless if its Intel or AMD.

I considered many possibilities:
  • Intel X99 + 6850K - old tech, will get obsoleted by X299 in a few months. The biggest benefits are fast SLI, support for lot of fast memory (3200-3600 speeds may be achievable) and possibility to upgrade to 6950K 10 core processor or one of monster Xeons (22 core) in far future (from ebay). Boards have max 1x M.2, some have 1-2x U.2 (have to use adapter). Would be slower and more expensive than Ryzen at the moment. But who will sell 6950K or Xeons for good price? smile.gif
  • Intel Z270 + 7700K - fastest single/low thread performance, less but very fast memory, no chance to swap in faster CPU later, ok SLI now (but maybe not in the future), up to 2x or 3x M.2 are supported on boards
  • AMD X370 + 1800X - low cost, good multi-thread performance but many issues at the moment. It seems better to wait. Motherboards don't have 2x M.2 with PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode, 2nd is slower. Unlike Intel sockets which are both dead now, AM4 will last longer. But I don't like myself to be the tester but buy a stable system.

If you want AMD and wait until most issues are resolved you will probably need to wait for longer than 6 months, as AMD is most likely busy with Ryzen 3 and Naples server processor.
Edited by wildhorse - 4/7/17 at 1:26am
post #7 of 17
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildhorse View Post

When using Ryzen for virtualization one will quickly run into memory limit. For virtualization you may want at least 32GB RAM with option to 64GB in the future. Very problematic with current AMD boards and 1st gen Ryzen to run that at decent speeds. You also probably want to run multiple SSDs in such case (at least 2). So you need board with 2x M.2 or 1x M.2 + 1x U.2 (and use adapter to convert it to M.2) where both can be used at the same time without performance hit.

Ryzen is probably best for encoding/rendering if you don't need lot of fast RAM. If you want Ryzen and lot of fast RAM, it seems its better to wait for subsequent Ryzen revisions and possibly new Ryzen boards.

It also seems that no board can run M.2 SSDs in RAID 1 regardless if its Intel or AMD.

I considered many possibilities:
  • Intel X99 + 6850K - old tech, will get obsoleted by X299 in a few months. The biggest benefits are fast SLI, support for lot of fast memory (3200-3600 speeds may be achievable) and possibility to upgrade to 6950K 10 core processor or one of monster Xeons (22 core) in far future (from ebay). Boards have max 1x M.2, some have 1-2x U.2 (have to use adapter). Would be slower and more expensive than Ryzen at the moment. But who will sell 6950K or Xeons for good price? smile.gif
  • Intel Z270 + 7700K - fastest single/low thread performance, less but very fast memory, no chance to swap in faster CPU later, ok SLI now (but maybe not in the future), up to 2x or 3x M.2 are supported on boards
  • AMD X370 + 1800X - low cost, good multi-thread performance but many issues at the moment. It seems better to wait. Motherboards don't have 2x M.2 with PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode, 2nd is slower. Unlike Intel sockets which are both dead now, AM4 will last longer. But I don't like myself to be the tester but buy a stable system.

If you want AMD and wait until most issues are resolved you will probably need to wait for longer than 6 months, as AMD is most likely busy with Ryzen 3 and Naples server processor.
!st question) Why would I want multiple SSDs? So, 2?
2nd question) "Motherboards don't have 2x M.2 with PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode" - the Z270 mobos do, though? It would be pretty bad though that AMD would put out new mobos and one M2.2 slot is crippled?

Third question) It seems that AMD wasn't allowed to use Intel's newest LAN? Intel boards have i219-v while AMD has i211-AT. Or how would you look at the discrepancy? Most of the Ryzen/AMD boards have Realtek LAN, anyway.... well, under $200....it's all Realtek.

I think the Intel hardware seems better or higher profile/higher quality hardware or just more features and the prices are only slightly higher - well, maybe cpu-comparative. I am still undecided but where I was heavily leaning towards Ryzen, now I'm not so sure. I would like the extra cores but maybe I would just wait longer if I was encoding.
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post #8 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobee View Post

!st question) Why would I want multiple SSDs? So, 2?
2nd question) "Motherboards don't have 2x M.2 with PCIE 3.0 x 4 mode" - the Z270 mobos do, though? It would be pretty bad though that AMD would put out new mobos and one M2.2 slot is crippled?

Third question) It seems that AMD wasn't allowed to use Intel's newest LAN? Intel boards have i219-v while AMD has i211-AT. Or how would you look at the discrepancy? Most of the Ryzen/AMD boards have Realtek LAN, anyway.... well, under $200....it's all Realtek.

I think the Intel hardware seems better or higher profile/higher quality hardware or just more features and the prices are only slightly higher - well, maybe cpu-comparative. I am still undecided but where I was heavily leaning towards Ryzen, now I'm not so sure. I would like the extra cores but maybe I would just wait longer if I was encoding.

I would say right now it's good to have 1x M.2 SSD and in the future possibly more. U.2 is not very useful as there are almost no drives for it. Converter for M.2 has to be bought, then it could work. For example ASRock X370 Taichi has 2x M.2, but one is faster, one is slower. Asus X370 CROSSHAIR VI HERO has only 1 M.2.

Z270 motherboards have that. For example Asus Z290 Maximus IX formula supports 2 M.2. MSI Z270 XPOWER GAMING TITANIUM supports 3 M.2. ASRock Z270 Taichi also supports 3 M.2.
X99 motherboards mostly have M.2/U.2 combination, except for the great ASRock X99 Taichi which has 2 M.2.

You have to decide if you will be happy with just 1 high speed M.2... Often it is placed under the first PCIE x16 slot to burn there...
post #9 of 17
If I am considering for a PC solely for video editing, is Ryzen a good buy for the price?
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post #10 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

If I am considering for a PC solely for video editing, is Ryzen a good buy for the price?

Yes. Ryzen 1700 will clock about the same as the 1800X. Unless you don't overclock the 1800X is topped out from the box but may be able to squeeze a little more from it.
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