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Gigabyte GA-AX370-Gaming K7 Discussion - Page 47

post #461 of 1608
An update on my build, got the K7 today and installed it without a hitch. I managed to overclock my ram to 3200ghz after flashing to F3. Running 2x 16gb G.Skill V series 14-14-14-34. I also overclocked the CPU to 3.7ghz, and will try to go to 4.0ghz after getting the mounting bracket for my H105. I also noticed that the CPU isn't Downclocking/Cool 'N Quite and stays at 3.7 all the time, still tinkering though.
post #462 of 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by KsaRedFx View Post

Anyone know why CPU (From motherboard) reports 50C and CPU (Tctl) reports 85?
Did they -15 the package temp? On top of the -20 from Tctl?

TCTL should be considered +20C from TDie for X chips.
CPU Temp is 15C lower than TDie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praetorr View Post

Downclocking/Cool 'N Quiet works fine for me with F3 & Win 10 using the Balanced power plan.

My CPU goes down to I believe 2.2Ghz when idle.

Oced?
post #463 of 1608
So now I have to offset my stuff +15 instead of -20?
God damn it.
post #464 of 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by KsaRedFx View Post

So now I have to offset my stuff +15 instead of -20?
God damn it.

Nope.

-35C biggrin.gif
post #465 of 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by mus1mus View Post

Nope.

-35C biggrin.gif

If it's offset -15 from TDie (Realistically, the correct temp)
It's -35 from what my profiles are set to, but I need to +15 "CPU" temp to get "real"
Before I had to -20 "CPU" temp to get "real"

Because I'm always trying to get that correct temperature.
post #466 of 1608
I'm feeling like a preacher here, but since AMD unfortunately failed to provide a proper explanation of how temperature readings work I had to analyze the behavior of CPU temp (Tctl) and the respective offsets (plural!) myself. Here is in short what I found out using a 1800X on an Asus Crosshair Hero VI board. The "Sense Skew" BIOS option of the Asus CH6 makes this even more confusing, but I don't know how Gigabyte implemented their Tctl and CPU readings. If any skew is active then read my word of warning at the end of the post.

The problem is that the temperature offset on X processors is not a fixed +20 C the way AMD explained. It changes dynamically, seemingly based on the CPU instruction set that us currently used by software. There are three offsets: +0 C (base), +10 C and +20 C.

Which offset is used does not seem to depend on current temperature or even CPU load in terms of percentage, but really on what CPU instructions are currently used. The software "Statuscore" can be used to demonstrate this, because it seems to use +10 C inducing instruction sets when even (2, 4..) cores are stressed, but +20 C inducing instructions when odd cores (1, 3..) are stressed.

Most of the time offsets jump up in one go, but decrease only gradually. If the current temp reading is in between base and an offset then it might increase gradually instead of jumping.

At full idle no offset (+0 C) is applied and your readings with "Sense Skew" enabled might show something weird, like being 10-20 C below your room's ambient temperature. You will get a +0 C offset mostly only while using the "Power Safer" and maybe "Balanced" plan.

Often you might see your temps jump up by +10 C regularly, just to have it drop down gradually and then jump up by +10 C again. This happens because some software/driver/service in the background induced the +10C offset shortly and then released it again.

Most of the common stress tests induce the +20 C offset, but "Heavyload" is a good example of a stress test that only induces the +10 C offset, even though it draw the very same current/power as some other stress tests that induce the +20 C offset.

To make things more complicated, once Tctl hits 95 C any offset is gradually decreased to match 95 C, at the same time soft throttling (down to about x30) increases gradually. This continues until the offset hits +0 C and the real CPU temp hits 95 C. At this point hard throttling to x5.5 (0.5 GHz!) happens and Tctl is allowed to increase over 95 C. At 115 C Tctl a thermal shutdown happens.

One word of warning: If your motherboard uses "Sense Skew" by default then it artificially lower Tctl to a point where your CPU might hardly reach its soft throttling points, never reaches its hard throttling point and especially never does a thermal shutdown. Instead your CPU will likely crash (Code 8 on the CH6) and still gets some voltage applied (1 V on the CH6).
Edited by Timur Born - 4/12/17 at 1:14am
post #467 of 1608
I can 100% guarantee you, this is not what happens for me.

I get the +20 offset under idle, full load, partial load, and anything you want in-between.
I also know that the temp doesn't change if I hit 95C; Because I've seen 1800X's reporting 115C on TCTL

I, for the most part have paid attention to TCTL up to this point, but the F3 BIOS is giving me -35 from TCTL (Which, including AMD's offset, is -15 from "Real")
My CPU is definitely not idling at 50-60C under water, and not running max at 85C under water either.

Edit; Before Gigabytes F3 BIOS my "CPU" temp from motherboard was the same as TCTL
Edited by KsaRedFx - 4/12/17 at 1:08am
post #468 of 1608
Quote:
Originally Posted by KsaRedFx View Post

I can 100% guarantee you, this is not what happens for me.

I get the +20 offset under idle, full load, partial load, and anything you want in-between.
You don't know if any of your background processed invokes the +20 C offset even while you deem your system idle. Did you ever see straight jumps of +10 or +20 happen? Maybe Gigabyte catches the Offset, though, and either turns it into a permanent +0 or a permanent +20, could be possible. If different motherboard vendors' BIOS would skew this differently then we are in even more of a mess than we already are without skewing the readings. rolleyes.gif
Quote:
I also know that the temp doesn't change if I hit 95C; Because I've seen 1800X's reporting 115C on TCTL
Like I wrote, Tctl is allowed to climb over 95 C once the CPU's real temperature (excluding offset) reaches 95 C. Did you see hard throttling to 0.5 Ghz at this point? Even more important, did your CPU a thermal shutdown at 115 C? If not then your motherboard might indeed use a permanent +20 offset at 95 C instead of gradually decreasing the offset. One reason for me posting here is that I'd like to know how Gigabyte handles this.

This is what hard throttling looks like at over 95 C real CPU temp:


Quote:
I, for the most part have paid attention to TCTL up to this point, but the F3 BIOS is giving me -35 from TCTL (Which, including AMD's offset, is -15 from "Real")
What does the new version of Ryzen Master read? It applies a fixed -20 C offset to Tctl for its own readings (just like HWinfo's "Tdie" does).
Edited by Timur Born - 4/12/17 at 1:13am
post #469 of 1608
My current RyZen Master reports the same as TCTL
Also, my motherboard on F2 always reported CPU "Package" temp as the same temperature that TCTL reported. Basically 1:1

Here's my current results; (Note I don't get TDie!)


Currently RyZen Master 1.0.0.0277, I'll go look for an update.

Edit: Got an update; RyZen master now reports -20 from TCTL

Realized you had more questions;
No, the CPU didn't scale back at all over the 100C reported TCTL. (Aida64 reports throttling, and reported none)
No, thermal shutdown was never reached.
No, I've never seen the temperatures spike up +10's under load.

I had another motherboard that also did the exact same things as this Gigabyte K7. (Asus B350)
Edited by KsaRedFx - 4/12/17 at 1:32am
post #470 of 1608
Even my forays to 1.6V Vcore didn't force a Thermal shutdown.

Instability induced-shut downs, yeah, a lot. tongue.gif
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