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Watercooling Delta > 20C ???

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
I am unsure why my WC setup is incurring such high Delta over ambient on idle and most importantly load.

My system specs are:

Intel Core i7 4790k @4.6GHz @1.264V
Gainward GTX 1080 Pheonix @1.075V @2,101MHz & 5500MHz
MSI Z87 GD-65 Gaming Motherboard
Corsair GS-700 Bronze PSU
G-Skill Ripjaws 1600MHz 16GB Ram
Thermaltake P5 ATX Case

WC setup:

EK Supremacy EVO CPU Waterblock
EK-FC1080 GTX JetStream - Nickel
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 560 Quad Radiator
EK CoolStream XE 480 Quad Radiator
EK XRES 140 Revo D5
PrimoChill PrimoFlex Advanced LRT Tubing Red 3/8ID 5/8OD
4 x Corsair SP 120 (1550RPM)
2 x Corsair SP 140 (1440RPM)

Loop order:

Res > Pump > GPU > CPU > 560 > 480 > Res

Problem:

GPU under load within 1 minute reaches and stabilizes at 52-55C @100% fans with adequate flow rate from pump. I am seeing other people report max GTX 1080 temps of 38-45C or delta's <10C. If I run my fans at 50% I can expect GPU temps to hit 55-57C. Over the past few months of using the PC, my GPU temps have always seemed to be in the mid 50's range regardless of ambient temps whether we experience 40C hot days or 25-30C days I have never been able to run consistently <50C on GPU.

I have reseated the GPU block at least 4 times and have used MX-4 thermal compound. It appeared to be making good contact with GPU die. I did have to replace the thermal pads of one side of the memory bank as there was a gap and wasn't making contact with the required 0.5mm thermal pad. I installed a 1.0mm pad and this has solved the problem for that. I doubt that has offset the GPU block as my temps before this were still hitting 55C max since I first got the block.

CPU under Aida64 with all CPU parameters ticked hits around 65-70C across all cores under load (dellided)

I do lack measuring and temp sensing equipment and will get a water temp sensor within a week to figure out what is going on.

Any advice in the mean time will be appreciated. But from what I can tell roughly, my ambient is around 25C and is quite humid currently. Before booting my PC I felt the water temp inside the res and it was cold of course. After gaming for a few hours, the water temp seemed almost the same, it was not at all luke warm or hot, but it did feel a few degrees warmer. Fans are running full tilt at 100% 1550rpm for the 120's and 140's at 1440rpm. Pump is a D5, running at about 2400rpm (55%). Air has been bled out from what I can tell almost completely by running pump at 100% for the first few days since I added the 560 rad, and tilting PC case.



Fans @100%


Fans @50%

Edited by HeLeX63 - 3/19/17 at 4:06pm
post #2 of 36
Delta T is your water temp delta T, nit your CPU/GPU delta T. Nobody has a CPU/GPU delta T under 20 without extreme cooling.
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post #3 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0451 View Post

Delta T is your water temp delta T, nit your CPU/GPU delta T. Nobody has a CPU/GPU delta T under 20 without extreme cooling.

Well I'm pretty sure many people who have reported to me, are saying that my temps are very high considering rad space. People with 25C ambients can achieve GPU temps of <40C, whereas my temps at roughly 25C at actual acceptable fan speeds are hitting 57C.

57-25 = 32C Delta... This is terrible from what I have heard.
post #4 of 36
Your fine you will go crazy worrying about what every other person says. You have a lot of rad space, do your temps even change when you lower fan speed? Just thinking your not even coming close to heat soaking those rads to need to turn your fans up.
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post #5 of 36
Thread Starter 
I have uploaded above photos at 100% fan speed and 50%. @50% fan speed temps creep up to 56/57C for GPU load temps... And yes this is driving me insane. I also notice that my GPU block is one of few from EK that actually cools the chokes. On the MSI sea hawk only GPU/memory itself is cooled but not the chokes.. I have no idea if this is what is causing high temps on my block only ?
Edited by HeLeX63 - 3/19/17 at 4:50pm
post #6 of 36
A Delta T is just the difference between any two temperatures and more than one kind is used in water cooling, so its possible to confuse one delta with another.

The most common one people talk about with water cooled systems is the ambient air temp - coolant temp delta. That tells us how well the radiators and so on are cooling the coolant. A commonly talked about figure is around 10C but less and more is of course normal.

The Core temp - coolant temp delta is a measure of how well the block performs. You will see this one used in block reviews. By comparing to coolant temp we remove the variation in ambient air temp from any comparison. For example if your friend is getting 30C GPU temps and you can't do better than 50C it doesn't automatically mean your system is worse, just that your mate is in a 15C ambient and yours is 35C.

For GPU's a common core - coolant delta figure is 10C on Nvidea GPUs running hard, all the way up to 20C for some AMD GPUs (though this may have just been a part of the 290X's insane power usage.
For CPU's it is normal for it to be much higher than the GPU. Figures up to 30 and 40C are normal when overclocking, this figure will vary with chip type and block.

So, wirth your system you should be easily seeing an ambient - coolant delta of 5C or less. The GPU block hasn't been tested properly but it should fit into the common 10C or less core - coolant delta.
In 25C ambient I would expect a 40C GPU temp at most, and/or lower than that once the system is running as it should.

So, a GPU temp that instantly spikes up to 55C, as oposed to slowly climbing from a lower temp, is indicative of a bad mount or similar problem with the block rather than with the cooling system as a whole.

A good set of pics for the whole system can make diagnosis much easier.
Is the mount good?
Is the block connected to the loop correctly?
These are the most common block related problems.
Edited by Ashcroft - 3/19/17 at 9:29pm
post #7 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft View Post

A Delta T is just the difference between any two temperatures and more than one kind is used in water cooling, so its possible to confuse one delta with another.

The most common one people talk about with water cooled systems is the ambient air temp - coolant temp delta. That tells us how well the radiators and so on are cooling the coolant. A commonly talked about figure is around 10C but less and more is of course normal.

The Core temp - coolant temp delta is a measure of how well the block performs. You will see this one used in block reviews. By comparing to coolant temp we remove the variation in ambient air temp from any comparison. For example if your friend is getting 30C GPU temps and you can't do better than 50C it doesn't automatically mean your system is worse, just that your mate is in a 15C ambient and yours is 35C.

For GPU's a common core - coolant delta figure is 10C on Nvidea GPUs running hard, all the way up to 20C for some AMD GPUs (though this may have just been a part of the 290X's insane power usage.
For CPU's it is normal for it to be much higher than the GPU. Figures up to 30 and 40C are normal when overclocking, this figure will vary with chip type and block.

So, wirth your system you should be easily seeing an ambient - coolant delta of 5C or less. The GPU block hasn't been tested properly but it should fit into the common 10C or less core - coolant delta.
In 25C ambient I would expect a 40C GPU temp at most, and/or lower than that once the system is running as it should.

So, a GPU temp that instantly spikes up to 55C, as oposed to slowly climbing from a lower temp, is indicative of a bad mount or similar problem with the block rather than with the cooling system as a whole.

A good set of pics for the whole system can make diagnosis much easier.
Is the mount good?
Is the block connected to the loop correctly?
These are the most common block related problems.

I wouldn't say it instantly spikes up to 55C. But it would do so in about 1 minute. It would go from say 32C to 44C, then within 30 seconds it would hit 48C, then another 30 seconds it would be in the 50's and finally it would settle anywhere between 50-55C depending on game.

You can tell very easily based on high quickly the temps climb that keep the GPU in the 40's is out of the question...

Here are some photos of my loop.



post #8 of 36
I think it is somewhat bad gpu block (the first thought – is it flat or convex? Did thermal paste cover all of die when you removed gpu block? And for that matter did you spread thermal paste or did you just put a single dot in the middle of the gpu die?). There is no way for water to heat so quickly (it has huge thermal capacity) – I have thermal sensor in my water loop which is somewhat comparable to yours (D5 at position 2.5, something around 2.5k RPM, 3x360mm rads, 3770k @4.6 and 980 Ti) and when playing Far Cry primal (GPU at 99% all the time, considerable load on all cores) at ~24 C ambient water starts starts ~26 degrees and gradually, after a few minutes rises to around 30, and again, a few minutes later to stabilizes 33 degrees max and that is at around 900 RPM (that is push only inside a case with mix of SP120 and EK vardar fans). If I set my fans to 1500 RPM no way water would be hotter than 30 degrees. Now the block I have is "abysmal" koolance GPU-220 which, by all accounts, is super mega awesomely bad (it does not even have fins) but even it gives Delta T of gpu temp (38 C) – water temp (33 C) = 5 degrees. For that matter with aida64 CPU stress test my 3770k cores max out at around ~77 degrees @4.6 @1.3V but I did not delid it (EK supremacy MX, noctua D15 actually gave me pretty much the same temperature, I hate intel for using paste on its mainstream CPU's) and water stays at cosy ~27-28 degrees.

By the way if you do not have infrared gun – get it, it generally good to have around the house and it will give you water temperature if you point it at your hoses thumb.gif
Edited by dejau - 3/20/17 at 1:21am
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post #9 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dejau View Post

I think it is somewhat bad gpu block (the first thought – is it flat or convex? Did thermal paste cover all of die when you removed gpu block? And for that matter did you spread thermal paste or did you just put a single dot in the middle of the gpu die?). There is no way for water to heat so quickly (it has huge thermal capacity) – I have thermal sensor in my water loop which is somewhat comparable to yours (D5 at position 2.5, something around 2.5k RPM, 3x360mm rads, 3770k @4.6 and 980 Ti) and when playing Far Cry primal (GPU at 99% all the time, considerable load on all cores) at ~24 C ambient water starts starts ~26 degrees and gradually, after a few minutes rises to around 30, and again, a few minutes later to stabilizes 33 degrees max and that is at around 900 RPM (that is push only inside a case with mix of SP120 and EK vardar fans). If I set my fans to 1500 RPM no way water would be hotter than 30 degrees. Now the block I have is "abysmal" koolance GPU-220 which, by all accounts, is super mega awesomely bad (it does not even have fins) but even it gives Delta T of gpu temp (38 C) – water temp (33 C) = 5 degrees. For that matter with aida64 CPU stress test my 3770k cores max out at around ~77 degrees @4.6 @1.3V but I did not delid it (EK supremacy MX, noctua D15 actually gave me pretty much the same temperature, I hate intel for using paste on its mainstream CPU's) and water stays at cosy ~27-28 degrees.

By the way if you do not have infrared gun – get it, it generally good to have around the house and it will give you water temperature if you point it at your hoses thumb.gif

I decided to empty my loop and have another look. Its all the same as it was before. I re-applied some Thermal Grizzly and have seen 2-3C drop from my max 54/55C to a max of 51/52C but that's about it. The right side memory bank is using 1mm thermal pads while the other 2 banks are using 0.5mm. Reason being the right side banks were not making any contact whatsoever. But my temps before this fix were still in the mid 50's.



post #10 of 36
I think the block is the main culprint (see circled parts, I think block is not making full contact with GPU die, had this happen with air cooler when little part of gpu die did not have thermal paste and gpu temperature was way higher than expected, in your case (please correct if somebody knows better) block is not flat enough to make contact with full gpu die). No way in hell you should be getting worse temperature than what I had with 120mm antec 920 AIO (~48 @1000 RPM @25 ambient).


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