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[Guru3d] Radeon RX 500 Series fabbed using newer 14nm LLP - Page 10

post #91 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamervivek View Post

AMD"s announced MI25 professional card is supposed to have 12.5TFLOPs of single precision compute which can be achieved with 4096 shaders by a clockspeed >1.5Ghz, and since desktop parts are almost always clocked higher, it can touch 1.6Ghz on stock.

I repeat, AMD themselves have announced the professional card, this is not a rumor or speculation. There can be other possibilities, as in, the MI25 card has more shaders but then that goes against the 4096 shader part being the bigger Vega, or that it does more than twice FP16 operations, which is again pretty unlikely.

As for the 1.2Ghz part leak, some of the Polaris leaks were with 800Mhz last year and there was quite the commotion here when a user said that Polaris couldn't hit high clocks. It ended up being more than 50% faster for the 480.

Oh yes! Bring it! biggrin.gif
post #92 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatun-Bear View Post

You keep repeating this, but I don't believe Vega is going to be clocked anywhere near 1500Mhz, let alone 1600Mhz (!!). That's a pipe dream. The engineering samples a couple weeks back had a boost frequency of 1200Mhz. I think 1200Mhz or around there is the best you can hope for and it won't overclock much more than that like Fury and Polaris before it.

At 1200Mhz the speed should be around a GTX 1080. Slightly faster in DX12 but slightly slower on average in DX11 titles on average. Bookmark this prediction.
Different architecture. If it were just a beefed up Polaris, it would have 5120 shaders @1200MHz. Instead, we get 4096 @1500MHz.

Unless AMD is lying about its peak FLOPS, or its CUs have more shaders than the previous architectures, 1500MHz is practically confirmed.



They're now targeting 12.5TFLOPS as of the Radeon Instinct presentation.
Edited by Pyrotagonist - 3/23/17 at 12:09pm
post #93 of 100
Just crossing my fingers for a Vega Small at <$350 at just above 1070 levels at least, the most I would ever spend on a GPU in my 11 years in this hobby. Else, I'll just settle for a 580 and buy some candy with the left over money lol.
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post #94 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrotagonist View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatun-Bear View Post

You keep repeating this, but I don't believe Vega is going to be clocked anywhere near 1500Mhz, let alone 1600Mhz (!!). That's a pipe dream. The engineering samples a couple weeks back had a boost frequency of 1200Mhz. I think 1200Mhz or around there is the best you can hope for and it won't overclock much more than that like Fury and Polaris before it.

At 1200Mhz the speed should be around a GTX 1080. Slightly faster in DX12 but slightly slower on average in DX11 titles on average. Bookmark this prediction.
Different architecture. If it were just a beefed up Polaris, it would have 5120 shaders @1200MHz. Instead, we get 4096 @1500MHz.

Unless AMD is lying about its peak FLOPS, or its CUs have more shaders than the previous architectures, 1500MHz is practically confirmed.



They're now targeting 12.5TFLOPS as of the Radeon Instinct presentation.
@ 225 watts?!?!?!? Damn son sign me up.
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post #95 of 100
AMD is betting on winning with their radeon Instinct and Radeon pro cards. The professional market pays for development costs and help keep the balance sheet green. Gamers are economy class citizens to help pad the bottom line.
I wouldn't have it any other way, if AMD wants to compete in this space.
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post #96 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tobiman View Post

AMD is betting on winning with their radeon Instinct and Radeon pro cards. The professional market pays for development costs and help keep the balance sheet green. Gamers are economy class citizens to help pad the bottom line.
I wouldn't have it any other way, if AMD wants to compete in this space.

AMD was betting on winning a little bit too often in the recent past. Alone with the architectures of Tonga, Fiji and Polaris their stakes were set very high and in the end they lost all of it. In the professional market its even worse because there AMD products are generally used as 2nd or even 3rd option. Only small business or projects with very tight budget take AMD as a choice there. The reason is the reputation as a "do it yourself solution". Everyone going with the standards doesn't see them as valid option.

Since AMD has not very high market share in both consumer or business markets, their regain is very small. The consistant low profit to even heavy losses have summed over the years. Its doubtful that AMD gets rolling with a few products like the "Instinct" alone. The hole between the Rx400-series and the upper end of what Nvidia offers hasn't helped AMD either. Polaris should have saved them by farming the low- to midend markets, but Nvidia was just a tick better and bested them again. Now Polaris gets a rehash series and Vega is hopefully competitive. It must be so bitter for the RTG to rely so much on the Zen sales. There most of the budget went into.

Where AMD want to compete and where they actually do it, are two completely different aspects.
post #97 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware Hoshi View Post

AMD was betting on winning a little bit too often in the recent past. Alone with the architectures of Tonga, Fiji and Polaris their stakes were set very high and in the end they lost all of it. In the professional market its even worse because there AMD products are generally used as 2nd or even 3rd option. Only small business or projects with very tight budget take AMD as a choice there. The reason is the reputation as a "do it yourself solution". Everyone going with the standards doesn't see them as valid option.

Since AMD has not very high market share in both consumer or business markets, their regain is very small. The consistant low profit to even heavy losses have summed over the years. Its doubtful that AMD gets rolling with a few products like the "Instinct" alone. The hole between the Rx400-series and the upper end of what Nvidia offers hasn't helped AMD either. Polaris should have saved them by farming the low- to midend markets, but Nvidia was just a tick better and bested them again. Now Polaris gets a rehash series and Vega is hopefully competitive. It must be so bitter for the RTG to rely so much on the Zen sales. There most of the budget went into.

Where AMD want to compete and where they actually do it, are two completely different aspects.

Uhhhh, I would say pretty much the only really awkward card AMD has released in the past few years has been the Fury X. Outside of that, their cards have been extremely competitive at their price points. Also, AFAIK Polaris has been far from a failure, I'm pretty sure it has been selling very well.

Your comment about RTG being bitter from relying on Zen is laughable. The graphics division was the only thing that carried them through the bulldozer dark ages, I'm sure that they are actually relieved to have the pressure lifted off their shoulders a bit. The Polaris cards reflect that a bit in my mind. Instead of swinging for the fences, they just decided to make some smaller, more power efficient cards that can get them a decent margin and regain a bit of market share. Mission accomplished.
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post #98 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Uhhhh, I would say pretty much the only really awkward card AMD has released in the past few years has been the Fury X. Outside of that, their cards have been extremely competitive at their price points.

Fury X was a dud indeed. The attached AiO felt like a foreign object and did drive prices up. Actually the whole Fiji series was a complete failure because of HBM. With such an expensive to manufacture technology, a bargain vendor like AMD could never be competetive.

Without their low price strategy nobody is buying AMD products, that is simply a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Also, AFAIK Polaris has been far from a failure, I'm pretty sure it has been selling very well.

Selling well is relative. AMD and the RTG made losses again. The dumping prices have a negative effect on the sales outcome. The Polaris series is battling hard against a smaller chip of Nvidia (GTX 1060). There is no way AMd can win a price war against a cheaper to produce competitor.

Technical Polaris is ... just not good enough. It's even odd when a 314mm² chip of a GTX1070 has better efficiency than a 232mm² of a Rx480. Both have 150W TDP, but the 1070 is way stronger. If looked at this, it is no wonder why AMd wants to improve the image with a new Polaris refresh series. Yet from what we heard nothing much changes expect a mild OC. All in all this might not be enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

Your comment about RTG being bitter from relying on Zen is laughable. The graphics division was the only thing that carried them through the bulldozer dark ages, I'm sure that they are actually relieved to have the pressure lifted off their shoulders a bit

Laugh as much as you want. In the last two years the Radeons could no longer shoulder the weight of the whole company alone. They made loss after loss each quarter. Yes, there were times when this was not the case and Ex-ATI helped AMD to stay over water.
Once Zen was drawing closer, AMD did treat the new founded RTG as a red headed stepchild and cut funding heavily to promote their new CPU arch. You can see that the rocky times for each Radeon series began after 2013, when one rebrand after another followed.

No project manager can be happy if his fundings get cut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultracarpet View Post

The Polaris cards reflect that a bit in my mind. Instead of swinging for the fences, they just decided to make some smaller, more power efficient cards that can get them a decent margin and regain a bit of market share. Mission accomplished.

Power efficiency is a big credo in the IT-world. Unlucky for AMD is that their management seems to compare new generations against the heaterlike 1st gen 290X (270-290W TDP). Otherwise their fantasy numbers make no sense. Despite their bad marketing, AMD has the bad habit of buying a little market share for heavy losses, though can not keep them in the long run. Market share without profits are worth nothing.

Since the the age old HD3000-series they have dumped prices till they couldn't hurt themselves any more. This time the missing high-end Radeons hurts the low- to mid-end, where Polaris is positioned at. It is no wonder AMD wants to rehash Polaris. Otherwise they can not escape their own dumping strategy.

Although this is a nice try, it does not have to work at all. Anyone with a R9-290X or equivalent is unlikely to sidegrade. Everyone else either already has a RX480 or wants a higher end model.

I can not help myself but thinking of Polaris will be a shortlived as Fiji. The refresh just prolongs this dying process.
Edited by Hardware Hoshi - Yesterday at 4:46 am
post #99 of 100
I prefer reviews over babbling, can somebody wake me up when they get here?
post #100 of 100
Maxwell and pascal benefited heavily from Nvidia's foray into the mobile business. Something that AMD didn't really put that much effort in. With Vega, a good amount of those technologies will be implemented and it's better late than never.
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