Overclock.net banner

[Bloomberg] Uber to Suspend Autonomous Tests After Arizona Accident

5K views 145 replies 44 participants last post by  xundeadgenesisx 
#1 ·
Source
Quote:
A self-driving car operated by Uber Technologies Inc. was involved in a crash in Tempe, Arizona, the latest setback for a company reeling from multiple crises.

In a photo posted on Twitter, one of Uber's Volvo self-driving SUVs is pictured on its side next to another car with dents and smashed windows. An Uber spokeswoman confirmed the incident, and the veracity of the photo, in an email to Bloomberg News.
 
See less See more
1
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish702 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Funny how an Uber crash is always news when ~100 people die from car crashes every day in the US alone.
I believe it maybe be do to it being a self driving car, not a Uber.
Yeah that's what I mean.

Just seems kind of insulting to me, like a robot fender bender deserves more airtime than the death of a person.
 
#7 ·
No injuries as of yet, and found a very short clip on an article from The Verge

ABC 15 is claiming failure to yield, I'd like to see more than a 19 second clip before making a judgement on that.

Also, there was a passenger present, according to police:
Quote:
Police said there was a passenger in the self-driving car. The person was behind the wheel but it's unclear whether they were controlling the SUV or not.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Yeah that's what I mean.

Just seems kind of insulting to me, like a robot fender bender deserves more airtime than the death of a person.
It's an emerging technology being pushed VERY fast into market. It needs to be scrutinized and watched very closely.
 
#9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloCamo View Post

It's an emerging technology being pushed VERY fast into market. It needs to be scrutinized and watched very closely.
Not even that rather it is news involving technology and science. From diagnostics to who was at fault to how to improve response time but also desicion making. Does the self driving car inherently protect the passenger at all cost or the pedestrian. Does it avoid a child pedestrian over an elderly pedestrian or does it avoid pedestrians at all costs.

Vault 7 has even shown the interest in hacking cars with a human operator let alone an autonomous operator.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrews2547 View Post

You should probably read the source.
I already corrected myself earlier in the thread, was that necessary?

Back on topic: last December, these same Volvos were temporarily banned in California over a prior incident, and the state govt required Uber to obtain a permit in order to continue testing in that state. Uber responded by leaving the state. I'm curious as to why Arizona legislators didn't make Uber go through the legal process. States are going to be reluctant to test these vehicles after this.
 
#12 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucethemoose View Post

Just seems kind of insulting to me, like a robot fender bender deserves more airtime than the death of a person.
Accountability is a big question, here. People are held liable for their actions, in the event of a crash. Damages (including life and limb) are the responsibility of the person (and insurance agency by extension.) Negligence is tantamount to manslaughter, for drivers. It's not feasible to hold employees of a self-driving vehicle manufacturer responsible in the same way, and it's no consolation to hold an artificial entity like a corporation responsible -- not when they're engaged in an activity that (on this scale) will result in the loss of lives.

It's very difficult legal ground.

People are interested because of this. They're also concerned that corporations may eventually end up with more rights than they do, because that tends to happen; beyond this diligent and ethical inception phase, we know that self-driving vehicles will become more normalized.. which means it will become an industry that seeks economic, social, and political advantages.

What happens now is what dictates how the future unfolds around this technology. It's no surprise that people are interested in that, rather than the understood consequences of the current transportation system.
 
#13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Accountability is a big question, here. People are held liable for their actions, in the event of a crash. Damages (including life and limb) are the responsibility of the person (and insurance agency by extension.) Negligence is tantamount to manslaughter, for drivers. It's not feasible to hold employees of a self-driving vehicle manufacturer responsible in the same way, and it's no consolation to hold an artificial entity like a corporation responsible -- not when they're engaged in an activity that (on this scale) will result in the loss of lives.
Think about this from the perspective of the driver of the other vehicle: that person is now out for blood and will likely sue Uber. Assuming the passenger in Uber's Volvo was controlling the vehicle? He should be held responsible as well.
 
#14 ·
I am so over this idiotic push to cram self-driving cars down our throats.

I. Don't. Want. A Self-driving. Car. Period.

I want to drive my own car and that's an end to it. I don't ever even ride with others as I simply want to be in control of my own vehicle at all times. I'm sure at some point this technology will be good enough but after 20 years and hundreds of thousands of issue-free miles under my belt I am more than confident in my own ability to pilot a vehicle and don't need or want somebody telling me some GPU can do it better. Want a self-driving car? Fine, knock yourself out. But there will be hell to pay if anybody ever suggests I not be allowed to drive myself (unless of course I become physically unable to do so for whatever reason).
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I am so over this idiotic push to cram self-driving cars down our throats.

I. Don't. Want. A Self-driving. Car. Period.

I want to drive my own car and that's an end to it. I don't ever even ride with others as I simply want to be in control of my own vehicle at all times. I'm sure at some point this technology will be good enough but after 20 years and hundreds of thousands of issue-free miles under my belt I am more than confident in my own ability to pilot a vehicle and don't need or want somebody telling me some GPU can do it better. Want a self-driving car? Fine, knock yourself out. But there will be hell to pay if anybody ever suggests I not be allowed to drive myself (unless of course I become physically unable to do so for whatever reason).
I do but I also want to drive a lot of the time. But in the morning with a 45 minute commute that's 45 minutes of extra sleep!
tongue.gif
 
#16 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by extracrunchy View Post

I do but I also want to drive a lot of the time. But in the morning with a 45 minute commute that's 45 minutes of extra sleep!
tongue.gif
I could accept this sort of hybrid solution where cars had the ability to turn autopilot on or off like KITT from Knight Rider. That would be pretty cool. Unfortunately most people around here seem to be pushing for eliminating humans from driving altogether and that is something I will not ever accept. The safety Nazis are always out in force, always looking for the next way to "protect" us from ourselves but I don't want to be a bubble boy. We're all going to die someday but the important thing is what we do while we're here and how much fun we have doing it. Otherwise living even 200 years would be pretty pointless.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin SSJ Eric View Post

I am so over this idiotic push to cram self-driving cars down our throats.

I. Don't. Want. A Self-driving. Car. Period.

I want to drive my own car and that's an end to it. I don't ever even ride with others as I simply want to be in control of my own vehicle at all times. I'm sure at some point this technology will be good enough but after 20 years and hundreds of thousands of issue-free miles under my belt I am more than confident in my own ability to pilot a vehicle and don't need or want somebody telling me some GPU can do it better. Want a self-driving car? Fine, knock yourself out. But there will be hell to pay if anybody ever suggests I not be allowed to drive myself (unless of course I become physically unable to do so for whatever reason).
I don't get why people care so much about driving. No matter how safe you think you drive, you are not as reliable as a self-driving vehicle.. especially if you consider that self-driving vehicles can have safety controls that run on a network level in total symphony, in parallel with their individual cognitive algorithms. They can react to completely unforeseen circumstances both in concert, and autonomously. You can never claim to reach that level of safety while operating a vehicle.

It's not that people want to take away your right to drive, it's just that your right to drive is in the way of a much better system. Once the data comes in, you won't have a leg to stand on. It can (and will) be proven that your driving is leagues worse than that which will be achieved with technology in the near future. Particularly when you consider the raw GPS data that will illustrate other issues, like the inefficiency of human route-decisions. With GPS and AI, autonomous vehicles will be much more capable of choosing routes that are not only safer for occupants, but also benefit the environment by being less wasteful.

Your rights might be in the way of that now, but it's not like people are just trying to take your rights away. It just so happens that your rights stand in the way of the full-benefit of autonomous driving, and in that regard there's no justification for driving yourself.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

I don't get why people care so much about driving. No matter how safe you think you drive, you are not as reliable as a self-driving vehicle.. especially if you consider that self-driving vehicles can have safety controls that run on a network level in total symphony, in parallel with their individual cognitive algorithms. They can react to completely unforeseen circumstances both in concert, and autonomously. You can never claim to reach that level of safety while operating a vehicle.

It's not that people want to take away your right to drive, it's just that your right to drive is in the way of a much better system. Once the data comes in, you won't have a leg to stand on. It can (and will) be proven that your driving is leagues worse than that which will be achieved with technology in the near future. Particularly when you consider the raw GPS data that will illustrate other issues, like the inefficiency of human route-decisions. With GPS and AI, autonomous vehicles will be much more capable of choosing routes that are not only safer for occupants, but also benefit the environment by being less wasteful.

Your rights might be in the way of that now, but it's not like people are just trying to take your rights away. It just so happens that your rights stand in the way of the full-benefit of autonomous driving, and in that regard there's no justification for driving yourself.
Right because no pc software or hardware ever goes wrong lol.

Ive been in a total of a couple accidents none caused by me but all saved myself because i used my brain (motorcycle accidents none the less), ive always avoided accidents because again, i used my brain.

A self driving car isn't going to take off at a red light if someone comes up behind you and rear ends you, but your brain (you know because youre looking in your rear view mirror) might make you take off and turn right at the intersection instead of being rear ended at 50mph.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

A self driving car isn't going to take off at a red light if someone comes up behind you and rear ends you, but your brain (you know because youre looking in your rear view mirror) might make you take off and turn right at the intersection instead of being rear ended at 50mph.
Why not? A self driving car could monitor traffic in all directions at the same time, and potentially better than a human being in each of those directions. It can predict collisions better than you, in that regard. Where most people would in fact be rear-ended in that circumstance, a autonomous vehicle could be capable of dodging multiple vehicles. If you had 4 self driving vehicles approaching a 4-way intersection from different directions, they could conceivably even telegraph information about that one person who was going to rear end your vehicle, and act in symphony to allow your individual vehicle to move through the intersection in that emergency situation.

The hardware is only about a decade away from being affordable; the software is currently being developed. I see no reason for your skepticism about the capabilities of autonomous vehicles -- the sky is the limit, for them. Human limitations are well known, accepted, and it's almost impossible to move beyond them.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

Why not? A self driving car could monitor traffic in all directions at the same time, and potentially better than a human being in each of those directions. It can predict collisions better than you, in that regard. Where most people would in fact be rear-ended in that circumstance, a autonomous vehicle could be capable of dodging multiple vehicles. If you had 4 self driving vehicles approaching a 4-way intersection from different directions, they could conceivably even telegraph information about that one person who was going to rear end your vehicle, and act in symphony to allow your individual vehicle to move through the intersection to avoid that crash.

The hardware is only about a decade away from being affordable; the software is currently being developed. I see no reason for your skepticism about the capabilities of autonomous vehicles -- the sky is the limit, for them. Human limitations are well known, accepted, and it's almost impossible to move beyond them.
Man you have so much faith on this its absolutely ridiculous. If you think a car even an autonomous one can instantly stop then man you clearly have no knowledge of the automotive world lol.

A car is still a car, self driven or not it still functions exactly the same. Unless you're planning on adding 12" carbon brakes on your average car then its still going to take a while to stop. Only difference between a human and autonomous car is going to be reaction time and that makes little to no difference.

If it's going to crash it's going to crash. You think an autonomous car would drive thru a red light with other autonomous cars going around and that those cars are going to stop instantly lol. Bro come on now, you sound like you work for Uber autonomy lol.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

Man you have so much faith on this its absolutely ridiculous. If you think a car even an autonomous one can instantly stop then man you clearly have no knowledge of the automotive world lol.

A car is still a car, self driven or not it still functions exactly the same. Unless you're planning on adding 12" carbon brakes on your average car then its still going to take a while to stop. Only difference between a human and autonomous car is going to be reaction time and that makes little to no difference.

If it's going to crash it's going to crash. You think an autonomous car would drive thru a red light with other autonomous cars going around and that those cars are going to stop instantly lol. Bro come on now, you sound like you work for Uber autonomy lol.
See, this is why autonomous vehicles are better than you. Autonomous vehicles can calculate and know the limitations of it's own and other vehicles simultaneously, with razor sharp accuracy. You are the one who can't predict the speed of an oncoming vehicle -- you're the one who can't be sure when you need to begin taking corrective action. A computer can monitor a vehicle, in real-time, as it approaches; it can know the exact moment when that vehicle is no longer capable of breaking in time to prevent the collision. The autonomous vehicle can make these calculations faster and more accurately than you can, and it can also collect more relevant information than you do. It can perform these vastly different calculations in parallel, too, which would be exceedingly difficult for you. Most importantly, it can communicate effectively to other autonomous vehicles, which means they can also react to this impending collision before it's even within the sight of their sensing hardware -- networking, my friend, humans can't communicate that fast.

"If it's going to crash it's going to crash" is your way of looking at it, because you know that by the time you noticed the severity of the situation, it's already too late to do something about it. An autonomous vehicle can gather information and make decisions long before it gets to that point.. every, single, time.

I mean seriously, do you have any idea how many calculations your computer makes reliably each second to do something like show you a Youtube video or make a forum post? The reliability is unfathomably more advanced that human cognition.

If you plan on basing your argument on the notion that humans are superior drivers, you're going to lose every single time. That argument will be valid for a decade, at a maximum. You're going to want to focus on the economic / human rights aspect of this argument, because humans are practically dinosaurs compared to what's on the horizon.
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post

See, this is why autonomous vehicles are better than you. Autonomous vehicles can calculate and know the limitations of it's own and other vehicles simultaneously, with razor sharp accuracy. You are the one who can't predict the speed of an oncoming vehicle -- you're the one who can't be sure when you need to begin taking corrective action. A computer can monitor a vehicle, in real-time, as it approaches; it can know the exact moment when that vehicle is no longer capable of breaking in time to prevent the collision. The autonomous vehicle can make these calculations faster and more accurately than you can, and it can also collect more relevant information than you do. It can perform these vastly different calculations in parallel, too, which would be exceedingly difficult for you. Most importantly, it can communicate effectively to other autonomous vehicles, which means they can also react to this impending collision before it's even within the sight of their sensing hardware -- networking, my friend, humans can't communicate that fast.

"If it's going to crash it's going to crash" is your way of looking at it, because you know that by the time you noticed the severity of the situation, it's already too late to do something about it. An autonomous vehicle can gather information and make decisions long before it gets to that point.. every, single, time.

I mean seriously, do you have any idea how many calculations your computer makes reliably each second to do something like show you a Youtube video or make a forum post? The reliability is unfathomably more advanced that human cognition.

If you plan on basing your argument on the notion that humans are superior drivers, you're going to lose every single time. That argument will be valid for a decade, at a maximum. You're going to want to focus on the economic / human rights aspect of this argument, because humans are practically dinosaurs compared to what's on the horizon.
My racing license and lightning fast reaction time begs to differ with you.

Ever wonder why European who have much higher highway speeds then Americans crash less and die less? Because instead of spending BILLIONS on idiotic technology they spend millions on teaching people how to drive. Something the US doesn't do. Just look up at Finnish driving tests, the amount of driving lessons and drive time they go thru before even getting a license.

Go back to work at Uber man and stop posting garbage on here. As if software is 100% reliable lol. Dude you make me laugh
thumb.gif
 
#24 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

My racing license and lightning fast reaction time begs to differ with you.

Ever wonder why European who have much higher highway speeds then Americans crash less and die less? Because instead of spending BILLIONS on idiotic technology they spend millions on teaching people how to drive. Something the US doesn't do. Just look up at Finnish driving tests, the amount of driving lessons and drive time they go thru before even getting a license.

Go back to work at Uber man and stop posting garbage on here. As if software is 100% reliable lol. Dude you make me laugh
thumb.gif
There are approximately 5500 vehicular incidents in Finland per year, year over year, producing approximately 6600 injuries and 280 fatalities per year.

Although that number has come down over the last 40 years steadily, improvements have virtually flat-lined. There is only so much improvement that can be imposed upon individuals with administrative controls like the kinds you've illustrated.

Automation is the only platform that will reliably produce improvements in these statistics, going forward. It will do so at comparatively lesser costs, because it will consolidate and eternalize the effort of technologists who develop and improve the hardware and software that makes it possible. Your argument boils down to egotism, rhetoric, and sentiment -- nothing else.

Like I said, you may want to sharpen your argument towards the human rights side of things. The technology will be superior to human decision making -- the statistics will not be on your side in this debate; humans will inevitably be less reliable for this task.
 
#25 ·
LOL guy has a racing license and thinks he's faster and better than a computer.

Dood whatever you're on... send us some..
 
  • Rep+
Reactions: lovetobuild
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluej511 View Post

My racing license and lightning fast reaction time begs to differ with you.

Ever wonder why European who have much higher highway speeds then Americans crash less and die less? Because instead of spending BILLIONS on idiotic technology they spend millions on teaching people how to drive. Something the US doesn't do. Just look up at Finnish driving tests, the amount of driving lessons and drive time they go thru before even getting a license.

Go back to work at Uber man and stop posting garbage on here. As if software is 100% reliable lol. Dude you make me laugh
thumb.gif
Can vouch for this, driving competency tests in the US are a joke. You can literally get by with a 10 question written exam and a 20 minute road test. That's it.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top