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[FossBytes] Microsoft “Destroyed Users Computers” After Windows 10 Upgrade - Now It’s Getting Sued

12K views 180 replies 81 participants last post by  Bit_reaper 
#1 ·
Quote:
Three people in Illinois have filed a lawsuit against Microsoft for its dodgy and unwanted Windows 10 upgrade practices. The plaintiffs are trying to have their case certified as a class action by claiming that Microsoft was unable to create a safe operating system. Microsoft has said that it had provided "numerous options including free customer support and 31-days to roll back to their old operating system."
Quote:
Microsoft has "failed to exercise reasonable care in designing, formulating, and manufacturing the Windows 10 upgrade and placing it into the stream of commerce," the complaint claims. Due to this failure, the company distributed an OS that caused them data loss and damage to hardware.
Source: https://fossbytes.com/microsoft-sued-windows-10-upgrade-class-action/
 
#3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechati View Post

First sentence of the M$ responce and already a lie...

"Customers had the option not to upgrade to Windows 10..."
Not a lie, you didn't have to upgrade if you didn't want to and there were notifications for months that you can if you want to. In the end you could just lock the system and keep it Win7, Win8, Win8.1, ...
My Win8.1 wasn't even upgradeable, it really depends what version of OS you have and what you click.

If someone clicks upgrade and then the upgrade fails, well that is their fault as well, they've authorized the upgrade.

Sure the upgrade marketing was annoying people, but if someone didn't want to upgrade they didn't have to.
 
#5 ·
#6 ·
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Originally Posted by CBZ323 View Post

In many cases the upgrades fired automatically, so yes it is a lie.

MS was caught doing automatic unauthorized upgrades.
This. My mother's 6 year old laptop upgraded on its own. She didn't even know it was happening until she turning it on one morning and it started initializing the OS change.
 
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#7 ·
Love how everyone keeps going on that "Windows 10 automatically upgraded" I never turned off updates on any of my Win 7 machines and not one of them got updated (were talking 5 PC's as well).

I don't know of anyone that had Windows 10 force install on there computers, the only times I've ever heard of it installing was when they clicked the "yes upgrade me to Windows 10" thing.
 
#8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiejuggalo View Post

Love how everyone keeps going on that "Windows 10 automatically upgraded" I never turned off updates on any of my Win 7 machines and not one of them got updated (were talking 5 PC's as well).

I don't know of anyone that had Windows 10 force install on there computers, the only times I've ever heard of it installing was when they clicked the "yes upgrade me to Windows 10" thing.
Good for you. Fact of the matter is, it has happened to others.
 
#9 ·
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Originally Posted by mrawesome421 View Post

Good for you. Fact of the matter is, it has happened to others.
Question is which countries did it happen in, I don't know of many that had it happen in Australia, seems to mostly be the USA.
 
#10 ·
I had to fix a few PC's that upgraded themselves. Once they got the little Windows 10 upgrade notice, at some point just clicking on it, even to close it, was Accepting the upgrade and scheduling it to install. If you didn't pay attention or know any better, one day you found your PC upgrading itself....

It was extremely shady of M$ to do that.
 
#11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiejuggalo View Post

Love how everyone keeps going on that "Windows 10 automatically upgraded" I never turned off updates on any of my Win 7 machines and not one of them got updated (were talking 5 PC's as well).

I don't know of anyone that had Windows 10 force install on there computers, the only times I've ever heard of it installing was when they clicked the "yes upgrade me to Windows 10" thing.
25 of my friends and family had winspy 10 auto install despite clicking the x more than once. and more than half of them have had nothing but problems if it isn't BSOD it's random slowdowns till the system crashes. so yes windows 10 did install on its own. just because it didnt happen to you doesnt mean it never happeed
 
#14 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBZ323 View Post

In many cases the upgrades fired automatically, so yes it is a lie.

MS was caught doing automatic unauthorized upgrades.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

This. My mother's 6 year old laptop upgraded on its own. She didn't even know it was happening until she turning it on one morning and it started initializing the OS change.
Out of the total of installations it was an incredibly small number that actually updated on their own and it was addressed by Microsoft.
 
#15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Out of the total of installations it was an incredibly small number that actually updated on their own and it was addressed by Microsoft.
This "incredibly small number" is hard to fathom, there's been a pretty obvious buzz about this issue for while now. It's no secret it's happened to quite a few people, just sayin.
 
#16 ·
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It means that it cover every person in the US who performed an upgrade to Windows 10 and experienced data loss or software/hardware damage within 1 month of installation.
This is beyond stupid. It's almost like they can't actually prove any of what they claim and they're only in it for the settlement money.
rolleyes.gif


Windows installs don't break hardware. At worst they break the OS.
Windows does not modify your partition and thus have no need to format.
Even if it did kill your OS, drop the HDD into another PC and copy/paste, the data was not "lost".
Even if they did save in C:\Windows like an idiot, it's backed up into Windows.Old.
Windows does not touch C:\Users.
Windows does not touch C:\Program Files.
Windows does not touch C:\Program Files x86.
Windows does not touch C:\ProgramData.
Windows does not touch any other drive but C in the first place.

So what did they lose and how? Are these three even remotely qualified to make such a call? Did they seek any IT support services? If no, then how do we know the data is gone, if yes, how do we know the shop didn't reinstall windows for them without backing up? Not included in the article obviously because how could this possibly be user error, the thing we know makes up more than 99% of problem related to IT.

Either way case is can not be proven. There is simply no evidence without them providing their computers. Any IT person qualified enough to prove it was deleted at the same time as the install is also qualified enough to recover the data if not the whole OS, rendering the lost data claim false, and good luck proving a dead HDD was windows and not a dying HDD. They'd need Microsoft to admit they did it, and they can't honestly say that even if they wanted to because no MS employee manually did it for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawesome421 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

Out of the total of installations it was an incredibly small number that actually updated on their own and it was addressed by Microsoft.
This "incredibly small number" is hard to fathom, there's been a pretty obvious buzz about this issue for while now. It's no secret it's happened to quite a few people, just sayin.
It's almost like people are both bad at admitting it's their fault when there's an "easy out", jumping on a bandwagon of hate that's popular at the moment, tend to exaggerate, have access to infinite anonymous accounts, and all around lie.

How many people who are actually tech savvy do you know who got hit? I've seen exactly one person in this thread with first hand experience (not "my mom said", as in their actual computer) that I would consider a trustworthy source. It's been that same was in every thread; "my friend's computer", "my family's computer", "my neighbors computrer", "People online claimed", but almost never "My rig". It isn't hard to fathom at all.
 
#17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I haven't had any issues with automatic upgrades on any of my systems because I turned off automatic updates. If you leave them on, you have implicitly given consent to any update MS throws your way, including an upgrade to Windows 10.
Consent, my booty. Did I give consent for Microsoft to reinstall all it's bloatware, spyware, adware, everything I SPECIFICALLY used powershell to unistall fully on Windows 10, only to have it shoved back down my throat with the anniversary update? Even the toggles in the options menu to limit spying got reverted back to whatever made them the most money with that update.
 
#18 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I haven't had any issues with automatic upgrades on any of my systems because I turned off automatic updates. If you leave them on, you have implicitly given consent to any update MS throws your way, including an upgrade to Windows 10.
Consent, my booty. Did I give consent for Microsoft to reinstall all it's bloatware, spyware, adware, everything I SPECIFICALLY used powershell to unistall fully on Windows 10, only to have it shoved back down my throat with the anniversary update? Even the toggles in the options menu to limit spying got reverted back to whatever made them the most money with that update.
By EULA, yea, probably.

By Law, yea probably. I don't think setting are covered by anything.

By Practice, yea probably, as in MS's eyes that update would be equivalent to the Vista -> 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10 updates. In place upgrades without setting resets are tricky, as when they move settings around, keeping the old ones can cause severe compatibility issues that probably resulted in most of the Win7 -> 10 issues for some people. Did it make a Windows.Old folder for you? If yes, your old settings are probably in there.

By Ethics, no, but I defer to the "Practice" portion for practicality as a dead install is worse from an ethics standpoint in my eyes.
 
#19 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

This is beyond stupid. It's almost like they can't actually prove any of what they claim and they're only in it for the settlement money.
rolleyes.gif


Windows installs don't break hardware. At worst they break the OS.
Windows does not modify your partition and thus have no need to format.
Even if it did kill your OS, drop the HDD into another PC and copy/paste, the data was not "lost".
Even if they did save in C:\Windows like an idiot, it's backed up into Windows.Old.
Windows does not touch C:\Users.
Windows does not touch C:\Program Files.
Windows does not touch C:\Program Files x86.
Windows does not touch C:\ProgramData.
Windows does not touch any other drive but C in the first place.

So what did they lose and how? Are these three even remotely qualified to make such a call? Did they seek any IT support services? If no, then how do we know the data is gone, if yes, how do we know the shop didn't reinstall windows for them without backing up? Not included in the article obviously because how could this possibly be user error, the thing we know makes up more than 99% of problem related to IT.

Either way case is can not be proven. There is simply no evidence without them providing their computers. Any IT person qualified enough to prove it was deleted at the same time as the install is also qualified enough to recover the data if not the whole OS, rendering the lost data claim false, and good luck proving a dead HDD was windows and not a dying HDD. They'd need Microsoft to admit they did it, and they can't honestly say that even if they wanted to because no MS employee manually did it for them.
It's almost like people are both bad at admitting it's their fault when there's an "easy out", jumping on a bandwagon of hate that's popular at the moment, tend to exaggerate, have access to infinite anonymous accounts, and all around lie.

How many people who are actually tech savvy do you know who got hit? I've seen exactly one person in this thread with first hand experience (not "my mom said", as in their actual computer) that I would consider a trustworthy source. It's been that same was in every thread; "my friend's computer", "my family's computer", "my neighbors computrer", "People online claimed", but almost never "My rig". It isn't hard to fathom at all.
So you're insinuating that everyone that this happened to and everyone that is evolved in this lawsuit is either an idiot or a liar.

Gotcha.
 
#20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

I haven't had any issues with automatic upgrades on any of my systems because I turned off automatic updates. If you leave them on, you have implicitly given consent to any update MS throws your way, including an upgrade to Windows 10.
No. That is not how it works.

You didn't agree by default, years before, when installing an operating system that was sold as a product with the assumption that you are also agreeing to a then non-existent EULA for something that isn't even in the same league of software - an operating system as a service - that grants you less rights as a consumer.

This alone should have stopped Microsoft in its tracks.

There was a lot of unprecedented gall in all of this on their part. Where was the "No, thanks. Don't bother me again." button? Nowhere.

From there on their behaviour only got worse and the yes men coming in trying to defend this behaviour was predictably inversely proportional, notwithstanding the insanity of it all.
 
#21 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Consent, my booty. Did I give consent for Microsoft to reinstall all it's bloatware, spyware, adware, everything I SPECIFICALLY used powershell to unistall fully on Windows 10, only to have it shoved back down my throat with the anniversary update? Even the toggles in the options menu to limit spying got reverted back to whatever made them the most money with that update.
Yes, you agreed to install a new update and changes to the OS that went along with it. Whether or not they're directly related to the update isn't really a concern. You agreed to change the OS itself. And - given that you seemed to have uninstalled core components - it makes sense that an update would reinstall that. You know, in case part of the OS had been damaged or corrupted? Or even more likely is the update contained this evil software that totally exists and just installed new versions of it. Which is kind of what updates do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrawesome421 View Post

So you're insinuating that everyone that this happened to and everyone that is evolved in this lawsuit is either an idiot or a liar.

Gotcha.
Yes, those were his exact words:

Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

Everyone that this happened to and everyone that is evolved in this lawsuit is either an idiot or a liar.
His post said quite literally nothing else.
 
#22 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by KyadCK View Post

By EULA, yea, probably.

By Law, yea probably. I don't think setting are covered by anything.

By Practice, yea probably, as in MS's eyes that update would be equivalent to the Vista -> 7 -> 8 -> 8.1 -> 10 updates. In place upgrades without setting resets are tricky, as when they move settings around, keeping the old ones can cause severe compatibility issues that probably resulted in most of the Win7 -> 10 issues for some people. Did it make a Windows.Old folder for you? If yes, your old settings are probably in there.

By Ethics, no, but I defer to the "Practice" portion for practicality as a dead install is worse from an ethics standpoint in my eyes.
Windows 10 -> Windows 10 Anniverysary update is too complicated to keep the settings, especially privacy ones? If this is too difficult, then the programmers they use clearly aren't good enough to be working for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalUnicorn View Post

Yes, you agreed to install a new update and changes to the OS that went along with it. Whether or not they're directly related to the update isn't really a concern. You agreed to change the OS itself. And - given that you seemed to have uninstalled core components - it makes sense that an update would reinstall that. You know, in case part of the OS had been damaged or corrupted? Or even more likely is the update contained this evil software that totally exists and just installed new versions of it. Which is kind of what updates do.
Yes, those were his exact words:
His post said quite literally nothing else.
Core component being... Microsoft Solitaire collection? And the "Candy Crush Soda Saga" link in my start menu?
 
#23 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007 View Post

No. That is not how it works.

You didn't agree by default, years before, when installing an operating system that is sold as a product with the assumption that you are also agreeing to a then non-existent EULA for something that isn't even in the same league of software - an operating system as a service - that grants you less rights as a consumer.

This alone should have stopped Microsoft in its tracks.

There was a lot of unprecedented gall in all of this on their part. Where was the "No, thanks. Don't bother me again." button? Nowhere.

From here on their behaviour only got worse and the yes men coming in trying to defend this behaviour was predictably inversely proportional, notwithstanding the insanity of it all.
IHere's the EULA for the NA release of 7. So:

Quote:
The terms also apply to any Microsoft updates
Which, given how it was pushed, it is reasonable to say Windows 10 would be considered an update. As for the EULA on updates to the OS, I can't seem to find anything. If their legal team didn't think to cover it, then I guess that means there's a pretty solid reason to conclude, yes, if you do not opt out of automatic updates then you do consent to them. You had six years before you risked being automagically upgraded to Windows 10 to turn it. If you didn't, well, that's on you and you alone.

As for your "leave me alone" button, here you go!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ./Cy4n1d3\. View Post

Core component being... Microsoft Solitaire collection?
Well, you made it sound like something actually offensive was installed. If it's just Solitaire, an app which can be uninstalled with a right click followed by a left click, I'm not sure I see the issue.
thumb.gif
 
#24 ·
Oh look, money seeking opportunists! Weird how none of my four Windows 10 systems have suffered any damage whatsoever and perform flawlessly. Guess i can't get in on this cash grab. Darn.
rolleyes.gif
 
#25 ·
@ CynicalUnicorn:

I'm sorry, but by replying to one of my post's, you have just agreed to my Terms of Debating and End Ranter License Agreement. What this means is that in no point will be allowed to leave this thread. Ever. We will debate this topic until one of us, hopefully not me, is dead. Thank you for choosing MrAwesome, and have a wonderful day, or whatever.
 
#26 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiejuggalo View Post

Love how everyone keeps going on that "Windows 10 automatically upgraded" I never turned off updates on any of my Win 7 machines and not one of them got updated (were talking 5 PC's as well).

I don't know of anyone that had Windows 10 force install on there computers, the only times I've ever heard of it installing was when they clicked the "yes upgrade me to Windows 10" thing.
My main rig did indeed upgrade from Win8.1 to Win10 all on its own while I was at work last year. I wasn't exactly pleased at the time as i was deferring the upgrade due to my custom Win8.1 Start menu (using Oblytile). That said, once making the adjustment Win10 has been exemplary for me and I went ahead and upgraded all of my other systems to it in short order. Of course there are things I wish were different with 10 (I really miss aero glass on 7) and it would be nice if none of the telemetry stuff were forced on us simply because I think that stuff clouds the issue with what otherwise is a very good OS. Had MS stuck with the old Win7 update model and Win10 were just the next Windows version I think people would have liked it much more and it would have been far less controversial.
 
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