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post #11 of 18
You've gotten some great comments already, but I just want to add that radiator drain ports are neither designed nor intended to be in the active flow path, and using it that way as depicted in your sketches will likely create a high restriction point and isn't a good idea. If you look at a radiator cross-section it should be clear why that's so (I've seen several over the years but can't find one at the moment). Also, rads are designed for active flow across the fins to remove heat, so you're not going to get the best performance by dunking one in what is essentially a still tank. The simple coiled tube won't be as efficient inch for inch but will probably do better given the significantly larger interface surface area.

Whether the flow will reverse in some sections when you engage the external chiller as billbartuska pointed out will come down to which pump is stronger, complicated by the restriction issues I mentioned above. I'd expect that an AIO pump (as it undoubtedly is if it's mounted on the CPU block) is going to lose in a big way to whatever you use for the chiller loop. Splitting where the auxiliary loop comes in and out adds unnecessary complications--a mixing chamber of some kind, again as bill suggested, is the way to go. I would do this at the reservoir assuming there are enough ports.

Also keep in mind your ambient air temps are going to go up a little bit since you're adding heat from the water cooler.

What specific existing components do you have (pump, res, rad)?

This does look like an interesting and fun project, but I think you would be well served by migrating to a full custom setup to give you more control over how everything feeds together and lays out.
Edited by threephi - 4/1/17 at 9:33am
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post #12 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thanks for your comments.

I came up with this idea while doing a loop flush with the system in operation by bleeding water out at the drain valve and simultaneously adding new to the fill port.

I'm not to concerned about raising the room temp I have a very large room 20x20. The idea of using the radiator drain is so I do have control on how much water I bleed off with the valve to go thru the coiled water loop. My radiator has a reservoir at the bottom where the drain is located. As I stated the pump is also variable control this way I can insure the flow is less than the CPU pump. Submersing the Rad in the water is just an after thought. I only intend for the coiled loop pump to push the water thu the coil and back into the system (CPU loop) if I can't get its flow to a low enough point I can add a restriction to the line. Hopefully the flow will be slowed to a point as to cool the water in the coil by 10c.

The idea that "billbartuska" pointed out has much merit and I am currently looking thru my years of junk to make a test model based on his picture and description kind of a plan B.
thumb.gif
I already have all the components listed.As you can see it is a very small pump and givin I will be pushing the water thru 1/2in tubing flow will be low.


Lines
Small 12v pump
Old PSU to power pump
Fittings
Old water cooler with thermostatic controlled water temp from 4c to 60c can also heat water, that works it has been running for a few days now cooling the tank water set at 10c with no issues. If none of this pans out I will start over using the advice I have received in this thread.

My test room/office sorry for the mess many other projects going on (building lamps and other furniture from Corvette parts:thumb: (this funds my PC projects)




Edited by We Gone - 4/1/17 at 12:39pm
    
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post #13 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by billbartuska View Post


The correct wat to take off a loop for auxillary cooling is to use a stilling chamber. The diameter of the chamber should a minimum of 2X the diameter of the main inlet and the length of the chamber should be 5X the diameter of the main inlet.


Sent you a PM with some questions on this as I could easily build this from PVC pipe I have and would work with what parts I have as long as I can find a way to seal the water tank unless the two water sources do not mix.

Moving forward with the pump test it looks like no need for a pump speed controller, the flow was very controllable down to just a dribble by using a valve on the input side of the pump. Not sure if this will lead to issues with the pump vs: speed control. I can go from less than 16oz p.m. to 1/2 gal p.m.

Pump test set-up

Edited by We Gone - 4/1/17 at 3:15pm
    
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post #14 of 18
The problems are as already talked about. To cool the water below ambient temp the chiller will have to be more powerful in wattage than the system creating the heat. Water chillers are no where near this powerful. I looked up a unit that is capable of producing 6 litres of cold water an hour and it uses 80W
What you will get is a cooling effect equivalent to its power. Assuming proper conduction.

Say its a 40W chiller. That will just just lower the overall loop delta T by that amount of energy. If your main system loop is 400W of heat and its running at a 10C delta to get the same 400W of cooling from the rads then the 40W chiller will just lower the Delta T by 1C. The chiller just becomes the equivalent of a poorly performing radiator.

The other problem is the poor conduction you will get with tubing immersed in the chilled water. Plastic tubing is a poor conductor. Unless it is copper tubing there will be very little heat exchange and the chiller will actually do very little.
The way do it is to use a small radiator immersed in the chilled coolant instead of the coiled tubing. That is how guys that use high powered air conditioners do it.

Unlike Air conditioners water chillers use a reservoir of water so that they only need to run in a duty cycle rather than constantly.
Edited by Ashcroft - 4/2/17 at 8:05am
post #15 of 18
Thread Starter 
Thank you,

I did a test last nite with the set-up as I had originally described. I was surprised that it did indeed work! The biggest issue was heat transfer using the soft plastic tubing. The good thing is the water cooler kept cooling and actually got colder (may have been due to poor heat transfer I stopped the test before the cooler reached max cold of 4c.

All tests done @ 4.6 overclock my 24/7 settings.
Average room temp 20-23c
Average Humidity 50-58%

Base Test- starting point All system normal at idle. Core 1 22c, Core 2 22c, Core 3 21c Core 4 27c, Room Temp 21c

15 min. stress test Max temps- Normal loop. Core 1 72c, Core 2 80c, Core 3 70c, Core 4 72c.. All fans on Low 500-650rpms

Cooling loop made of plastic 1/2 tubing.
Test with added cooling loop pump at max flow, water temp starting point 20c, All fans at same settings. This was hooked up per my original plan. I have two visual flow meters one at the top just after chilled water came in the other at the incoming radiator fitting> everything in the system continued to flow in the correct direction.

15 min. stress test Max temps= Core 1 70c, Core 2 74c, Core 3 63c, Core 4 63c. Water temp at the end of test was 15c so the cooler was still working great, if all goes well I will be able to set the temp lower thus not over working the cooler.

So on to plan B... replace the coil with 1/2 copper coil and see what happens. If none of the panes out it has still been fun and a learning experience. thumb.gif

The worm 10 feet of 1/2 inch copper tubing took about 2 hours to bend LOL..first cost incurred $25



OK Test 3 with copper coil. Sunday 8:40 pm

No load start of test,
Core 1 16c, Core 2 15c, core 3 14c, Core 4 14c. Room temp 22c, Water tank 21.5c

Test Full Load 15 min.
Core 1 62c, Core 2 63c, Core 54c, Core 4 56c, water tank temp end of test 22.6

So right now it looks like it works....BUT at this point as others have stated the water cooling tank may not keep up under 100% load or stress testing as I'm that into stressing any more I'm not to worried about it.

So on to many hours of Forza 3 to see how it works real time..

Monday 9 am

So after 4+ hours of Forza 3
Highest temps hit 62/65/54/55... Average temps 28c to 47c Not to bad the Cooler finely stabilized at 22.5c to 23.7c . When left to Idle the cooler would cycle at 10c to 12c .

I also ran about 2 hours without the water cooler just on radiator my normal set-up
Max temps 67/73/61/58 Average temps 35c to 55c.

Side notes: I did add a 120 fan to the back of the water cooler as it was producing a fair amount of heat this solved that issue.
Some other thoughts the cost to run my out-way the benefits if you are concerned and your power bill (I'm not)
The noise level no more than running fans at a bit higher level. On the plus side I have plenty of cold water to drink at my finger tips.

Upate: 4/4/2017

I am pleased with the results to this point and have gained about a 6- 8c decrease in max temps. Still a bit worried about condensation (have not seen any to this point) as idle temps are 15-18c with a room temp of 20-23c. I do still have good air flow plus the heat from the GPU just under the CPU pump.

4/5/2017

Last update while I work on plan C (stilling chamber At this point all I can find in regards to this is what was posted by "billbartuska" so the search continues)

After a solid 12 hrs hard gaming things balanced out at an overall 4-5c drop in max temps over just the normal loop. I'm sure if you kept going for 24hrs no drop in temps would be achieved. !2 hrs is a max for me with my nephew helping, normally 3-6hrs is my max and the gain at that point was an 7-9c drop in max temp.

So back to improving on the cooler, I have gone back and double insulated the tank and the compressor section as I was getting a lot of heat from it. I also added a variable 120 fan to cool the compressor section this resulted in freezing the water in the tank with no heat exchange coil! May be Thur. before any retesting as lots of storms with lightning in the area all day..

So how well did the cooling tank work after insulation? No coil in tank.
Room temp 20c Humidity 64-68%
Starting water temp 20c tank holds 1gl of water
16 min. ice was forming around the inside of tank water temp 13.1c
38 min. 7.6
54. min. tank reached 2.9 and the thermostat cycled. stopped test. When I can I'll retest with everything hooked back up.


That's it for now I will let it stay for a few weeks to see how it does long term.










Thanks for riding along hope you enjoyed it.
Edited by We Gone - 4/6/17 at 9:48am
    
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post #16 of 18
Well done! Kudos and REP+ for sticking to your plan in spite of a lot of skepticism (including by me wink.gif).
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post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
Added results to this point post 15. Still working out a few ideas and looking at plan C with D on the burner. lol thumb.gif
    
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post #18 of 18
Thread Starter 
Just an update, still running strong did a few mods to the plumbing, came off the T just past the CPU out line and return just before CPU intake. It only take a very small amount of cooled bleed in water to keep temps 6-8c lower than stock water cool set-up.

As for the water cooler still working fine and have been running it 12+ hours a day!
    
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