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# Cold air In or Warm air Out for radiator? Also chipset cooling? - Page 5

### Poll Results: Cold air In or Warm air Out for radiator

• 60% (12)
• 25% (5)
Warm air Out from case through radiator
• 15% (3)
Makes no difference
Quote:
Originally Posted by EMUracing

This is assuming that the heat of the radiator will transfer all heat to the air. The air will be warmer than ambient, but will not be 50c. If the loop is 15c delta, the air temperature will not increase 15c. It may be a 5-7c increase in air temperature at most.

It will definitely increase the temperature of the air cooler components inside of the case, but not at the drastic level that you mention. I know you are using these numbers to explain the theory, but the examples you show are not representative of real world values.

The actual mathematics is complicated due to the different atomic densities between air, water and copper/aluminium, but over time they will normalise to the same temperature, water at a slow rate compared to the others however (it's very capacitive and hence why it works so well as a coolant). If a radiator gets to yay high temperature then you actually want the air to get close to that, otherwise the radiator simply doesn't have enough surface area and thus will likely not get any cooler, if the radiator remains very close to the intake air temperature then that means it's working perfectly for the heat it has to dissipate (such is the case with my 420 monsta). In the end, the simple fact is your dumping the exact amount of heat produced by your processor/s into the air used to cool everything else, this is particularly bad in small cases, if you use both intake and exhaust radiators then the problem is reduced significantly and with low ambient temps you should be fine.

My raven's gone through many cooling revisions just to cope better with 30-50C ambient temperatures, before I replaced it with a full-blown water loop I had a noctua for the CPU and a custom 120*40 mini-loop (AIO with G1/4 fittings) for my GPU, air out-take to the top panel was up to 70C with a direct side-panel intake of ~40C. With the full loop the remaining components heat the case temp by 10-20C still albeit with lower airflow, loop's going through another revision now to improve the GPU block, update the CPU block for AM4 and increase the water flow to handle air build-up better.

 Dank Monsta Raven >:J (21 items) little grasshopper (10 items) build server (10 items)
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
R5-1600X GA-AX370-G5 XFX Vega64 AMD R9-290X
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 3200 C16 ADATA SX8000NF 2x Samsung 850 pro 256GB 2x WD Red 2TB RAID1
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB Seagate Shingle 8TB EK Supremacy EVO + EK Vega + EK 290X R2 + backp... Windows 10 Pro
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
4k 24" samung PLS freesync 1200p 24" samsung Corsair K70 Red Seasonic 1000W Platinum
Raven RV01 Corsair M60/M45 Corsair gigabyte dual-onboard audio
Audio
HDMI 8ch LPCM 24@192k DAC
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD AthlonII 640 x4 Gigabyte 880GM-USB3 nvidia GTX 460SE Corsair Dominator 2*2GB
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 500GB some sony DVD burner stock, case has a nice side duct though Windows 7 home premium 64bit
PowerCase
Arctic Cooling 550R Gigabyte mATX
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Atom 230 some all-in-one Mini-ITX board Intel GMA 950 some 1GB stick
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 320GB LightScribe DVD burner? passive stock Oracle Linux
PowerCase
integrated in the motherboard, 65W power brick compaque stock Mini-ITX case
 Dank Monsta Raven >:J (21 items) little grasshopper (10 items) build server (10 items)
CPUMotherboardGraphicsGraphics
R5-1600X GA-AX370-G5 XFX Vega64 AMD R9-290X
RAMHard DriveHard DriveHard Drive
Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB 3200 C16 ADATA SX8000NF 2x Samsung 850 pro 256GB 2x WD Red 2TB RAID1
Hard DriveHard DriveCoolingOS
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB Seagate Shingle 8TB EK Supremacy EVO + EK Vega + EK 290X R2 + backp... Windows 10 Pro
MonitorMonitorKeyboardPower
4k 24" samung PLS freesync 1200p 24" samsung Corsair K70 Red Seasonic 1000W Platinum
Raven RV01 Corsair M60/M45 Corsair gigabyte dual-onboard audio
Audio
HDMI 8ch LPCM 24@192k DAC
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
AMD AthlonII 640 x4 Gigabyte 880GM-USB3 nvidia GTX 460SE Corsair Dominator 2*2GB
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 500GB some sony DVD burner stock, case has a nice side duct though Windows 7 home premium 64bit
PowerCase
Arctic Cooling 550R Gigabyte mATX
CPUMotherboardGraphicsRAM
Intel Atom 230 some all-in-one Mini-ITX board Intel GMA 950 some 1GB stick
Hard DriveOptical DriveCoolingOS
Seagate 320GB LightScribe DVD burner? passive stock Oracle Linux
PowerCase
integrated in the motherboard, 65W power brick compaque stock Mini-ITX case
I thought of what you have suggested to mount rad inside the case front with the matching fan as push (as it was on the roof) but the Corsair case size is such that the 120-mm Corsair rad can't be fit in place of the 140-mm fan. Yes, the clear fans came with the case. I don't care much for the LEDs.
I am checking with Asus if the extra plastic on the motherboard can be safely removed. I'd take it off but it has more LEDs in it which are tied to the motherboard.
Indeed the clear 140mm fan only goes to 1300 rpm. The original 120mm went to 2000. I figure 140 squared times 1300 gets me almost the same CFM as 120 squared times 2000. However you are right about the pressure.
The only other place is the back exhaust fan but that also looked like a tight/impossible fit with the motherboard plastic (over the back USB ports).
May I ask what case it is? It looks kinda like a 450D, but those definitely have 120mm support up front.
The case is Corsair spec-02. I may need to review the front mounting options again.
Hot air out of the case not into. At least in Australia, where its HOT nearly all year round. I think we have a Winter, not sure.

It would cook my hard drives. Snowballs after a long time and turns the case into a hotbox. Define S could not exhaust the hot air.

Hard drives significantly cooler. Especially my WD black. 10deg cooler. under long loads.

Cool air going into the case doesn't get hot by flowing over components. Its not a very efficient heat exchange. So the Rad performance is no different from intake.
It definitely has 120 support up front.

Corsair Spec-02
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ppositeLock

Hot air out of the case not into. At least in Australia, where its HOT nearly all year round. I think we have a Winter, not sure.

It would cook my hard drives. Snowballs after a long time and turns the case into a hotbox. Define S could not exhaust the hot air.

Hard drives significantly cooler. Especially my WD black. 10deg cooler. under long loads.

Cool air going into the case doesn't get hot by flowing over components. Its not a very efficient heat exchange. So the Rad performance is no different from intake.

I am Australian and I found intaking to work best. Just like in this testing I found having both rads exhausting to work the worst, and one in-one out to be in the middle somewhere. That was in a Corsair 450D, 750D and a Bitfenix mid tower.

I don't understand why the define would be much different, it looks to have good ventilation on the rear, similar to my old cases.
Why would the temp increase over time? The temp of the air coming off the rads should stay pretty steady and just adding more air of the same temp doesn't increase temps any more than more water of the same temp warms a bath. The heat put out by the MB can increase as all the tracing and heatsinks reach full heat soak but it sounds more like maybe a case of the radiator not being sealed around its edges.

If rads have big gaps in the case next to them like they often do with cases that can mount 360 or 280mm rads, then its easier for them to create vortexs than to pull in outside ambient air through (or exhaust through) filters or mesh panels. That means they intake their own exhaust and progressively get warmer.
It made a big difference to my temps sealing rads and fans.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maltamonk

Have you mounted it on the outside of the case and are using one of those clear fans in pull config? If so I would change that. Move that clear fan, mount the rad where it was with the original rad fan mounted on it.
Thank you for this. I have reinstalled the fans. With some ingenuity it was possible to mount both the 140 fan as push and the original 120 rad fan as pull. Now in a 10-minute CPU-Z stress (4GHz all cores) the temp stabilizes at 79.75 C with this H60 (read by RyzenMaster so likely 59.75 C actual core temp). Much better than the previous 91 C (71 C). I'll put the new thermal image avatar. Now the VRMs are the hottest at around 50 C.

Edited by 1TM1 - 4/14/17 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashcroft

I am Australian and I found intaking to work best. Just like in this testing I found having both rads exhausting to work the worst, and one in-one out to be in the middle somewhere. That was in a Corsair 450D, 750D and a Bitfenix mid tower.

I don't understand why the define would be much different, it looks to have good ventilation on the rear, similar to my old cases.
Why would the temp increase over time? The temp of the air coming off the rads should stay pretty steady and just adding more air of the same temp doesn't increase temps any more than more water of the same temp warms a bath. The heat put out by the MB can increase as all the tracing and heatsinks reach full heat soak but it sounds more like maybe a case of the radiator not being sealed around its edges.

If rads have big gaps in the case next to them like they often do with cases that can mount 360 or 280mm rads, then its easier for them to create vortexs than to pull in outside ambient air through (or exhaust through) filters or mesh panels. That means they intake their own exhaust and progressively get warmer.
It made a big difference to my temps sealing rads and fans.

Definitely only cool air was entering the rad. Taped the rad inlet. Positive pressure in DefineS. Airflow front to back. 99.9%*sure there was no hoot air re-circulation.

Maybe the room temperature was going up to??

Hot air. Hotter components. Hotter water. Hotter air. Keeps compounding perhaps??

Hot air would make my Wd black shoot to 55c after an hour. Now its 10deg cooler without the hot air.

Motherboard died too. Can't confirm cause of death.

I get less heat soak and cooler components without hot air being dumped into the case.
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