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[WCCFTech]Intel Kaby Lake-G Processors To Pack Fast Discrete GPU and HBM2 Memory – Will Utilize Multi-Die Package Design - Page 5

post #41 of 49
Im happy with my $330 8 core 3.965 mhz 1.38 voltage 3300 mhz ddr4 ram setup. I didnt have to shell out $1000-$1400 for an intel 6-8-10 core, and honestly my 4.2 ghz quad core from 2010 was almost just as fast as a 2600k, there was no way I was going 7700k quad core again. Quad core is dated. Out of the gate dated. I dont care how fast the cores are, quad core is going the way of the dinosaur and its on its way out. Its so 2007... its 2017. Time to move on. There was no way I was going any less than 8 cores with my new PC build, especially since I play BF1 alot... and that game chokes the 7700k with 90-100% utilization on all cores... = no deal. am4 will allow me to upgrade to zen 2 or zen 3 that will destroy a 7700k single threaded with more cores with the same mb and ram, if I dont already destroy it in single threaded once I bclk oc this thing to 3600 mhz ram in the may agesa bios update. bclk oc is equal to or better than kaby intel. Someone on the oc forums already did it with a 135 bclk oc on a ryzen 5 quad core @ 4ghz. Its faster than kaby lake intel quad.
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post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

This is why Ryzen isn't interesting to me, price isn't everything. I want something that performs better than my 5960X at 4.2 GHz. We have had better performance than anything Ryzen offers from Intel for years now, albeit at a much higher price point.

Bringing costs down is great but increasing performance would be even better. frown.gif

A 4-core Kaby Lake with a huge L4 cache of HMB2 could be very interesting, though I would hope to see 6 and 8-core versions. tongue.gif

You dont pay attention very well then. Ryzen when clocked to the same clocks as Intel has almost the exact same IPC. All the while being 300 bones and 16 threads. I actually switched from a 4790K to Ryzen 1700 clocked to 3.8 for now and it blows my older intel away. Ryzen made a hufe IPC increase from previous gens on AMD. Catching up to nearly skylake performance and beating haswell is impressive I don't care what side you're on. Im pragmatic I dont car what "team" people are on I want a beast of a cpu that will be viable for years and AMD delivered cheaper than their compititions 4 core i7's.
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post #43 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimaggio1103 View Post

You dont pay attention very well then. Ryzen when clocked to the same clocks as Intel has almost the exact same IPC. All the while being 300 bones and 16 threads. I actually switched from a 4790K to Ryzen 1700 clocked to 3.8 for now and it blows my older intel away. Ryzen made a hufe IPC increase from previous gens on AMD. Catching up to nearly skylake performance and beating haswell is impressive I don't care what side you're on. Im pragmatic I dont car what "team" people are on I want a beast of a cpu that will be viable for years and AMD delivered cheaper than their compititions 4 core i7's.

I don't think you were paying attention to what I was saying. Ryzen is a great CPU and if I was in the market for a 4GHz 8-core today I would definitely grab a Ryzen over anything from Intel.

However, as someone who has owned an 8-core CPU at over 4GHz with Haswell IPC for well over two years, Ryzen doesn't offer me anything. frown.gif

Moving from a 5960X to a 1800X would be a side-grade at best. tongue.gif
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post #44 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodian View Post

This is why Ryzen isn't interesting to me, price isn't everything. I want something that performs better than my 5960X at 4.2 GHz. We have had better performance than anything Ryzen offers from Intel for years now, albeit at a much higher price point.

Bringing costs down is great but increasing performance would be even better. frown.gif

A 4-core Kaby Lake with a huge L4 cache of HMB2 could be very interesting, though I would hope to see 6 and 8-core versions. tongue.gif


Kinda hilarious to read this even on OCN. The HEDT line for AMD isn't even out yet and no, Ryzen 7 1800X isn't it. Truly "first world problems" kind of grumbling.
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBloodEagle View Post

Kinda hilarious to read this even on OCN. The HEDT line for AMD isn't even out yet and no, Ryzen 7 1800X isn't it. Truly "first world problems" kind of grumbling.

for the user you quoted nothing is going to change at all with AMD's HEDT

he wants more IPC not more n more cores
especially at even lower frequency (most likely)

unless you mean/think that AMD can increase frequency on it's HEDT platform to at least 4.6 Ghz he is not going to be interested

6 or 8 Kaby cores would be interesting because of higher IPC and better clocks
hopefully

since 7700k's top out at 5.2Ghz maybe we can find binned 6/8 core kaby lakes at 4.8 to 5 Ghz

that would be something
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post #46 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter2k View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBloodEagle View Post

Kinda hilarious to read this even on OCN. The HEDT line for AMD isn't even out yet and no, Ryzen 7 1800X isn't it. Truly "first world problems" kind of grumbling.

for the user you quoted nothing is going to change at all with AMD's HEDT

he wants more IPC not more n more cores
especially at even lower frequency (most likely)

unless you mean/think that AMD can increase frequency on it's HEDT platform to at least 4.6 Ghz he is not going to be interested

6 or 8 Kaby cores would be interesting because of higher IPC and better clocks
hopefully

since 7700k's top out at 5.2Ghz maybe we can find binned 6/8 core kaby lakes at 4.8 to 5 Ghz

that would be something

Then Asmodian only needs to wait another 5 to 10 years for chips to become better than his 8 to 10 cores as the IPC race is over and has been over for a long time. AMD achieved a 40% IPC gain over the BD uArch but they won't make another 40% IPC gain with Zen 2 or 3, just as Intel won't make the leap in IPC they made when they went from Netburst to the C2 (Pentium III) uArch.

 

All gains the past few generations by Intel have been through clock speed and thus IPS, not IPC. AMD will most likely do the same, increase clock speeds with maybe 10-15% IPC increase and that's it. This isn't because they don't want to but because we have reached the limits of silicon. As Intel's co-CEO said: "A new substrate is required and there is nothing in sight as of yet".

 

Only the very best 7700K's reach 5GHz or even go over so how n earth does that translate into 6 or 8 core KL's reaching those speeds? If it was that easy then in the past Intel's 6 or 10 cores would clock higher than a few hundred megahertz.

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post #47 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter2k View Post

for the user you quoted nothing is going to change at all with AMD's HEDT

he wants more IPC not more n more cores
especially at even lower frequency (most likely)

unless you mean/think that AMD can increase frequency on it's HEDT platform to at least 4.6 Ghz he is not going to be interested

6 or 8 Kaby cores would be interesting because of higher IPC and better clocks
hopefully

since 7700k's top out at 5.2Ghz maybe we can find binned 6/8 core kaby lakes at 4.8 to 5 Ghz

that would be something

Dude is in the 1% (or like 0.01%) as far as consumer rigs is what I meant & still grumbling a bit. It's OCN of course but still found it a bit funny. A lot of people have had to settle for a lot less including those trying to make a living wage with their rigs.

Also, is 5Ghz just an arbitrary number we all hold sacred? So say a CPU with 3X the IPC of the highest overclocked rig out there magically came out tomorrow but doing it at 1Ghz base clock, would it be disappointing?
Edited by TheBloodEagle - 4/24/17 at 1:36am
post #48 of 49
But the 7700K can get up to ~5.2ghz with Dow Corning paste. With solder or liquid metal it'd be up to 5.3 to 5.35.

2-4 extra cores might drop it to 4.8-5.0ghz or around that? And that's with solder
Edited by czin125 - 4/24/17 at 1:17am
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post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBloodEagle View Post

Dude is in the 1% (or like 0.01%) as far as consumer rigs is what I meant & still grumbling a bit. It's OCN of course but still found it a bit funny. A lot of people have had to settle for a lot less including those trying to make a living wage with their rigs.

Also, is 5Ghz just an arbitrary number we all hold sacred? So say a CPU with 3X the IPC of the highest overclocked rig out there magically came out tomorrow but doing it at 1Ghz base clock, would it be disappointing?
you quoted him
he was very specific to 2 other users already that his workload needs max IPC and max clocks

binned 8 or 10 core Intel chips top out at 4.4 Ghz for me here in Germany

if they could go up with kaby lakes better manufacturing process to 4.8 to 5Ghz it would obviously be better no?

I'm already talking about binned chips

also Intel uses solder on those line of chips; no need for a delid

if Intel or AMD could "just" multiply IPC magically they probably would have


also if I need a 10 core Intel monster for work reasons I can write it off from my taxes
so for a living
mmm
well I guess that depends on you're tax laws where you live

but then if I need more cores to be productive I'd be waiting on AMD's HEDT as well
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liranan View Post

Then Asmodian only needs to wait another 5 to 10 years for chips to become better than his 8 to 10 cores as the IPC race is over and has been over for a long time. AMD achieved a 40% IPC gain over the BD uArch but they won't make another 40% IPC gain with Zen 2 or 3, just as Intel won't make the leap in IPC they made when they went from Netburst to the C2 (Pentium III) uArch.

All gains the past few generations by Intel have been through clock speed and thus IPS, not IPC. AMD will most likely do the same, increase clock speeds with maybe 10-15% IPC increase and that's it. This isn't because they don't want to but because we have reached the limits of silicon. As Intel's co-CEO said: "A new substrate is required and there is nothing in sight as of yet".

Only the very best 7700K's reach 5GHz or even go over so how n earth does that translate into 6 or 8 core KL's reaching those speeds? If it was that easy then in the past Intel's 6 or 10 cores would clock higher than a few hundred megahertz.

temps are holding the 7700k's probably more back
according to silicon lottery 50% or so reach 5Ghz
that's before a delid as they sell that as an extra service
overclockersUk seems to have found the same (45% 5ghz, 20% 5.2Ghz with delid)

there's 3 ways to increase single thread performance

IPC increases; the usual maybe 5%

yeah that's gonna be real slow
agreed on that
if AMD could've increased IPC a lot more in sure they would have

bump up speed
better manufacturing process, better clocks
the more professional line gets soldered, no need for a delid or crappy glue/TIM to hold the chips back

more cache

most unlikely to be honest

but by slapping on 256mb of eDRAM, or dare to dream 1 gig of HBM2

that's why he said Kaby with 6 to 8 cores could be interesting

clocks high on average (if they were only soldered sigh), some IPC increase compared to broadwell (Ryzen equals broadwell IPC, if it would only clock higher; ehh waiting for Ryzen refresh)

and seemingly that AMD arrangement could mean some interesting shenanigans, maybe
Quote:
Originally Posted by czin125 View Post

But the 7700K can get up to ~5.2ghz with Dow Corning paste. With solder or liquid metal it'd be up to 5.3 to 5.35.

2-4 extra cores might drop it to 4.8-5.0ghz or around that? And that's with solder

well with a TIM replacement that is as good as solder, some reach 5.2

what is nice with overclockersUk stats is they list the duds
I think it was 3% of 7700k don't go past 4.8
Edited by peter2k - 4/24/17 at 2:16am
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