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post #231 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by KraxKill View Post

I do see what you are saying but it's hard to imagine where that 30 watts is going.

I think it would be going to good use if the Palit bios was written like the stock bios. In other word, if the stock bios could be modified to just have it's max TDP to be higher. Then we wouldn't even need to shunt mod and hardware modify our cards.

ASUS, MSI, SC2, Palit bios, I've tried them all and I've varied their clocks and voltages and compared their results. I've ran them multiple times at least 3 times each. I have a folder of like 30+ runs of benchmarks and I've always come back to stock.

I only did all this because I really did want a bios to perform better than the stock bios, but it saddens me to say that that didn't happen... I only hope the time and research I have performed assist other users out there.

And I got to tell ya my friend. Winter is comin, and nothing is going to stop the whites from hopping over that wall.
post #232 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by KraxKill View Post

... Do you know of a good way to test frame time? ...

MSI Afterburner comes with RivaTuner Statistics -> this programm is able to record frame times which you can log into a file, fraps can do that as well, in tabel form like excel... you can calculate 0.1% and 1% lows if you want.

But i came to the same conclusion like slim, cuz my afterburner ist monitoring my games, and i never have hitten the power limit while gaming in 4k, this only happens in time spy game 2 and superposition 8k.
other than that stock never power limits and delivers best performance

Edit:

All test were run at 5252MHz CPU / 4949 Cache i7 7700k - 4040 MHz 12-12-12-28-1T Ram
and 2100MHz Core / +850MHz Vram @ 1062mV 1080Ti with an ambient tempereature between 10-11° C never exceeded 28°C Load temp at GPU

So i did some further testing, and i came across something which i did not expect...
I flashed my card with the Asus FE Bios and got worse results than with my stock bios (Gainward Founders Edition),
so i compared those two files in an hex editor and could find some significant differences... so i downloaded all founders edition bios files and compared all of them
it seems evga and asus founders edition differs to all others, and the funny part is those two are performing worse in compariosn to the rest. even the asus fe bios has the same version number like all other but evga bios it differs significantly in the hex editor
with evga and asus fe bios i can't pass time spy game test 1 at all, with all other fe bios version which are basically the same but one line in the whole bios file its no problem.

Weird but thats what i can see here and reproduce
Edited by Hulio225 - 5/1/17 at 4:59pm
    
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post #233 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulio225 View Post

MSI Afterburner comes with RivaTuner Statistics -> this programm is able to record frame times which you can log into a file, fraps can do that as well, in tabel form like excel... you can calculate 0.1% and 1% lows if you want.

But i came to the same conclusion like slim, cuz my afterburner ist monitoring my games, and i never have hitten the power limit while gaming in 4k, this only happens in time spy game 2 and superposition 8k.
other than that stock never power limits and delivers best performance

Edit:

All test were run at 5252MHz CPU / 4949 Cache i7 7700k - 4040 MHz 12-12-12-28-1T Ram
and 2100MHz Core / +850MHz Vram @ 1062mV 1080Ti with an ambient tempereature between 10-11° C never exceeded 28°C Load temp at GPU

So i did some further testing, and i came across something which i did not expect...
I flashed my card with the Asus FE Bios and got worse results than with my stock bios (Gainward Founders Edition),
so i compared those two files in an hex editor and could find some significant differences... so i downloaded all founders edition bios files and compared all of them
it seems evga and asus founders edition differs to all others, and the funny part is those two are performing worse in compariosn to the rest. even the asus fe bios has the same version number like all other but evga bios it differs significantly in the hex editor
with evga and asus fe bios i can't pass time spy game test 1 at all, with all other fe bios version which are basically the same but one line in the whole bios file its no problem.

Weird but thats what i can see here and reproduce

Interesting. The difference in the FE Bios versions could be how the 30w or so Nvidia has left the partners to play with is used. It may be used for error correction on the lower tdp Bios versions instead? It would go along with the fact that people are experiencing the best performance on the Nvidia FE Bios as well as great stability over the higher tdp bios versions. This may translate into why the Palit is scoring lower than the FE if the wattage difference is borrowed for brute core power.

If the above is remotely valid, It would be interesting to test the BIOS' at an underclocked clock to see if they behave differently or the same at lower clocks in terms of performance as there would be no need to share TDP as there would be plenty of overhead for both error correction and outright core performance. Perhaps the difference in the BIOS' is simply to do with which functions get the little remaining power available at the edge of the TDP limit. Otherwise I can't understand how 30W is simply evaporating under the Palit as one example. I wish a had a meter handy to see if they are actually drawing the same power at the same time.
Edited by KraxKill - 5/1/17 at 7:05pm
post #234 of 332
The difference is very small, and the fe bios all have 300w power limit, you can check that with kedars file, you can edit lets say 500 pl in bat and execute it and it will tell you what is maximum and your number is wrong.

the bios files are compiled so i cant figure out what the differences are, but there are some for sure, at least between the evga and asus ones compared to all other fe bios files.

i can code in assembler for example and back in the days i had to create really simple bios files for class myslef... sometimes just the order of commands can make a chip perform a bit better or worse... i dont know what asus and evga did different but something is causing them to be unstable where im stable with other fe bios files...
And the palit game rock whatever premium card is a different pcb design, that could be the thing why its performing worse on the fe pcb, at least i assume that, could be a lot of reasons thou...

yeah it could be worth to compare them at lower clock speeds thou
Edited by Hulio225 - 5/2/17 at 6:52am
    
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post #235 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulio225 View Post

So i did some further testing, and i came across something which i did not expect...
I flashed my card with the Asus FE Bios and got worse results than with my stock bios (Gainward Founders Edition),
so i compared those two files in an hex editor and could find some significant differences... so i downloaded all founders edition bios files and compared all of them
it seems evga and asus founders edition differs to all others, and the funny part is those two are performing worse in compariosn to the rest. even the asus fe bios has the same version number like all other but evga bios it differs significantly in the hex editor
with evga and asus fe bios i can't pass time spy game test 1 at all, with all other fe bios version which are basically the same but one line in the whole bios file its no problem.

Weird but thats what i can see here and reproduce

Awww frown.gif and I've been using an Asus FE all along smile.gif but even then I've always found it to be best for me.

Interestingly too, Asus bios has exactly the same version as Nvidia bios, but the bios I saved off my card with nvflash has a different check sum to the Asus FE on TPU database?

I would have figured all FE bioses were the same but just had vendor ID's changed?
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post #236 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico67 View Post

Awww frown.gif and I've been using an Asus FE all along smile.gif but even then I've always found it to be best for me.

Interestingly too, Asus bios has exactly the same version as Nvidia bios, but the bios I saved off my card with nvflash has a different check sum to the Asus FE on TPU database?

I would have figured all FE bioses were the same but just had vendor ID's changed?

At least the asus and evga from tpu are more different than just vendor id if you compare files with an hex editor ... and they performed worse like i said...
i mean you could try the nvidia fe bios and see if you can get better performance or if it gets more stable at max clocks etc
    
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post #237 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulio225 View Post


At least the asus and evga from tpu are more different than just vendor id if you compare files with an hex editor ... and they performed worse like i said...
i mean you could try the nvidia fe bios and see if you can get better performance or if it gets more stable at max clocks etc

I have a MSI FE with the asus strix bios. Am I better just using the MSi bios.

 

Thank You

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post #238 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulio225 View Post

At least the asus and evga from tpu are more different than just vendor id if you compare files with an hex editor ... and they performed worse like i said...
i mean you could try the nvidia fe bios and see if you can get better performance or if it gets more stable at max clocks etc

I was pretty close with what I said about two asus bioses. If you look at the Asus and EVGA FE bioses on TPU, they are both updated versions, all the others are from 18-1-17 these newer ones are from March. But it also goes to show they could have launched at CES17, maybe they just didn't have the volume smile.gif

Wonder what they tweaked with the later FE bioses, probably just softened them up a bit so less issues?
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post #239 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nico67 View Post

I was pretty close with what I said about two asus bioses. If you look at the Asus and EVGA FE bioses on TPU, they are both updated versions, all the others are from 18-1-17 these newer ones are from March. But it also goes to show they could have launched at CES17, maybe they just didn't have the volume smile.gif

Wonder what they tweaked with the later FE bioses, probably just softened them up a bit so less issues?

Yeah i know the version numbers are higher, but strangly they have more issues, i couln'd pass time spy game test 1 with my overclocks at all while having no issues with the "older fe bios version".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Juggalo23451 View Post

I have a MSI FE with the asus strix bios. Am I better just using the MSi bios.

Thank You

If you haven't shunt moded you probably are good with the asus strix oc bios or the palit bios like kedar wolf stated.
My conclusions are always with a shunt moded card and the hunt for maximum performance in benchmarks.

Edit: I would seriously just like a FE bios with higher Power Limit, that would also benefit all not shunt moded cards the most imho ;-)
Edited by Hulio225 - 5/3/17 at 7:05am
    
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post #240 of 332
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulio225 View Post


Yeah i know the version numbers are higher, but strangly they have more issues, i couln'd pass time spy game test 1 with my overclocks at all while having no issues with the "older fe bios version".
If you haven't shunt moded you probably are good with the asus strix oc bios or the palit bios like kedar wolf stated.
My conclusions are always with a shunt moded card and the hunt for maximum performance in benchmarks.

Edit: I would seriously just like a FE bios with higher Power Limit, that would also benefit all not shunt moded cards the most imho ;-)

Yeah I put the water block on it before the shunt mod info came out I think. Which palit bios are you speaking of. Thank you for your help in advance.


Edited by Juggalo23451 - 5/3/17 at 10:08am
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