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[VC] NVIDIA launches TITAN Xp with 3840 CUDA cores (faster G5X) - Page 52

post #511 of 1039
Always great when somebody talks about Nvidia being scared of AMD.
 
If XP/1080ti was expensive, Nvidia is trying to cash out before Vega and they're screwing the consumer. If they were cheap people just say that they are scared of Vega. Conclusion: No matter what Nvidia does they are scared of Vega. Okay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by budgetgamer120 View Post
Wow lachen.gif

So where do the people who can afford it but still say no fall? rolleyes.gif

It falls into a segment of the population the person you were quoting wasn't trying to address. And they don't really matter because they're not buying it. You're acting like you've made some knock-down argument when you've really said nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

headscratch.gif

This is how the PC world works, in fact way way way back, really before the Internet as it is, by the time you mail-ordered hardware and it was shipped back to you it was obsolete on arrival. Simply because hardware was churning out at an incredible rate from various manufacturers.

Specific to Nvidia; This is the same thing they did with Titan and Titan Black.....

Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by unseen0 View Post

So let me get this straight.

1. Release TitanXP to tempt people into getting it at $1200.
2. Release 1080Ti that is on par with the TitanXP for $~800? and tempt people into that because of the hype.
3. Release a "Full" TitanXP that will most likely take the performance crown back from the TI and tempt people into getting this one.

Call it smart, call it dirty. I consider myself lucky to not have thrown down $1200 on that TitanXP!biggrin.gif

Uh... There is a giant time gap between 1 and 2 there which you're not stating. A ti matching an older Titan is not news.

 

 

This is capitalism. The other team can't compete, the consumer gets screwed. Can we get on the case on AMD failing on the high end? I don't think AMD is automatically this ethical company while big bad wolves Intel and Nvidia are terrible companies. AMD is playing the nice guy, open source card because they are behind. Once AMD's got a card that knocks out 1080ti or Titan Xp at their price point everything will be better again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Vote with your wallets. If it's worth it to you spend $1000-1200 for a video card, then power to you. However, I caution everyone that if you buy this card, it will only give Nvidia more confidence to continue to push the pricing envelope on their flagship products. Remember that only a few generations ago, Nvidia's flagship, the GTX 580, a fully enabled chip with a 384-bit memory bus, cost $500. We're now paying well over double that for the equivalent card.

Problem is that individually our votes don't matter. :h34r-smi No point voting if it just means I lose the ability to buy what I want. Well, if I were so disgusted with Nvidia that I don't even want to buy from them then that's different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PostalTwinkie View Post

"Rumors" were completely off on Zen as well and you obviously aren't going back far enough in AMD/ATis history if you don't think they can compete with Nvidia. Just like there was a time before Intel was the holder of the performance crown, there too was a time before Nvidia holding the crown.

You want to make judgement calls based off unfounded rumors that are based off speculation and opinion and not off history. The history being that AMD is plenty capable of pushing out an architecture that competes with Nvidia.

That's history, and ancient times by technological standards. Nowdays AMD's trying to gain back market share, they are the underdogs. They have to prove themselves. Last time? The highest end we got was RX480. Not very convincing. Before that, Fury X. Close but no cigar. Not feeling the AMD heat right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaza View Post

Yeah but everyone else did. I guess its Titan X (Pascal) and Titan Xp now.

I'd call old XP XP, and new XP Xp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue1512 View Post

People call it Titan XP.

That's why nVidia calls the new one Titan Xp.

See the difference? /s

Well, actually... yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipper17 View Post

I'd say people who bought titan series, you better wait for Titan XV ( Volta).

I think a sizable portion of people who bought original Titan XP would be fine buying Titan Xp now. Otherwise they probably should have stuck with 1080 and move on to 1080ti or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcfc89 View Post
You're right things are looking promising for Amd. rolleyes.gif

http://www.overclock.net/t/1627408/fortune-why-amd-shares-just-lost-as-much-as-9#post_25991998

To be fair, that's just stock price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post

NVIDIA is not releasing the Titan Xp for laughs and giggles, they must know something about Vega since the release of the Xp will be a diplomatic nightmare.

Or maybe they just want more moneys. Like with the debut of the first Titan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunderman456 View Post
Yep!

Yes, Fury X was close to 980ti in pricing. But it was as expensive and not as fast. That sort of small difference in between those two cards is enough to kill the Fury X.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek View Post
But 100% increase in your epeen for only an extra $400-500 is amazing value.

Not calling out that it's very likely not just 3-5% increase of Xp over 1080ti is dishonest. Nvidia doesn't need to, shouldn't be expected to, and won't improve their business practices. The only cure is for AMD to knock Nvidia out.

Quote:
 That is never going to happen, EVER. Not this lifetime, not the next 10 lifetimes. It's just human nature to want instant gratification.

In a way that's the entire hardware industry, especially back in the old days. You can keep waiting forever and not get anything every.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
I've never really cared how much something was cut down...only how it performs and if it fits in my budget.

Yeah, I mostly agree there. 


I mean, R&D is a thing. If I spend more on R&D I can justify cutting down chip size to save money that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishmaker View Post
The issue at hand is twofold in my view. Pascal was handled badly and puts the consumer in the delicate position of being a walking wallet and nothing else. Granted consumers have choice to spend or not but in the absence of high end alternatives from AMD, people who needed cards to replace their old cards and enthusiasts who want the best and latest, pulled the trigger.

People purchased Titan cards, best performance card out there. Fast forward, the 1080TI comes out, optimised and with better performance than the king of the hill at a better price. We all applauded NVIDIA, except those who burned cash on the original Titan, for coming to their senses and offering huge performance in the 800-950 EUR bracket.
A month later after the 1080Ti, we found ourselves in a pickle. The 1080Ti for the price range is not the king of the hill and the original Titan is being slapped in the face again. So Titan owners got wrecked twice: first with the 1080ti and now with the new Pascal at the same price of the old titan. All this happened in less than 1 year!

As a consumer with the budget to buy a high end card, I do not have the confidence that my purchase is going to have its top spot for longer than half a year. When I dish out 1000 euros on a GPU, I have certain expectations. I do not want to spend that much and then have NVIDIA release a product on the same price range for 10-15% more performance. I was a 1080ti owner for a few hours and was giddy like a school girl. Just to see that my 850+ euros were spent on a product that will be replaced for the same price range in a few months?

Having said that, I will not venture in any GPU purchase until AMD releases their product. When AMD has Vega on the market and I see some reviews, I will most probably get a 1000 euro card from them, if HBM2 is as good as they claim. I am so annoyed with NVIDIA right now for milking people and not even be discreet about it that I will purchase an AMD card even if they are worse.

Mostly agree here. But we've seen HBM1 already. It wasn't enough to push Fury X over the 1080ti. Waiting just a bit longer is cool if you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcg75 View Post
That wasn't AMD. It was a April Fools joke by WCCFtech.

I don't see top line Vega coming with anything less than 8GB of HBM2.

mcg with the fact check! Nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GamerusMaximus View Post
Most of the people here complaining about nvidia burning titan users.....dont own titans (yourself, for instance). Actual titan owners seem quite happy. If I had bought a titan X maxwell, then 6 months later pascal came out, I wouldnt care. I would have my mega GPU, which didnt get suddenly worse. For people who buy titans, they want the biggest and best when they buy. Not 6 months from now, or whenever the next one comes out, but right now. Just like with supercars, there is always a better one coming.

Now, of course, there are some salty titan owners, just like every other GPU out there. But if everybody is going to throw a fit because a new card comes out, well, I'd recommend never buying a GPU. A new one is always on the horizon, waiting to claim it's spot on top. It's been that way since the 90s.

Yeah, I agree with this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keikei View Post
(AdoredTV video)

Ahhh nothing like getting in a stupid semantic debate with Adored in Youtube comments about what 'ultimate' means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post
Some people don't understand that this is a forum and people will share their opinions. I have the money to buy 2 Titan Xp's. Will I? Hell no!

Sure! And that's a legit opinion. But others are trying to insult others by saying their entire purchase is for e-peen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CallsignVega View Post
Some obvious flaws with his statements:

1. Yields most likely weren't good enough for the full chip to release back in August 2016 due to Quattro cards taking them up.
2. He makes it sound like original Titan-XP owners spend an extra $1200 for 10% more performance. It's not like you buy a Titan-Xp and throw your Titan-XP in the trash. I will easily sell mine for $800. So that is $400 for 9-months of having the top GPU. Really isn't that big a deal.

True.

Also my knowledge Titan XP came out in Aug. P6000 came out in Oct. For a while XP was really the ultimate gaming card.

And right now the Xp is the ultimate gaming card. The fact that it was or was not cut down doesn't matter, either it is the fastest card we can get or not. Nvidia can ALWAYS make a larger die or otherwise spend more hours getting a faster card. There is never an 'ultimate' card in the sense that there will never be a faster card. So what the heck is Adored going on about? The fact that the word 'ultimate' should never be used to describe computer hardware, ever?

Dear god if I see AMD use that word I'm going to trigger Adored so much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post
I know they are selling. That's a given. Just don't know how well.

Then he can't say that Titan Xp is a total success and the other guy can't say they're digging their own graves. Refer to Blameless' post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blameless View Post
Since the card requires nothing different from a manufacturing standpoint than the original TXP or the 1080 Ti, they have nothing to lose by selling the part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post
Highly doubt 99 percent of Titan XP owners are happy they didn't even get 1 year in before the Ti which costs $500 less and the Titan Xp beat it out.

You'll convince me you're right once you start finding 10-15 people with Titan XP saying they're salty. I just see a bunch of people going on and on about how Titan Xp is a bad buy, you included.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjdubb View Post
I can't recall reading a post by a Titan owner complaining about either it's price or performance.

True. Then again, how many among us have Titan XP? :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by i7monkey View Post
and to think this stuff used to cost $499 frown.gif

Hey, 8800 Ultra costed $1000+ adjusted for inflation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post
For some people $1000 a year per GPU is nothing.

$1000 is not that much. I make my house slightly larger, in a better area, better kitchen, better car and I can lose a ton more money.

 

You make $100k a year as a decent wage, you get tens of thousands to play with a year.

The difference between the people here complaining about pricing and the people on LTT videos is that the commenters on LTT are making memes about their empty wallets. The people here act like nobody ever makes more money than they do.

On the other hand I do think Nvidia is trying to get away with changing what price points we think are acceptable for a graphics card, and delivering us less because AMD's got nothing right now.


Edited by Darkwizzie - 4/8/17 at 7:07am
   
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post #512 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

If the GP102 have double precision, Nvidia wouldnt release a GP100 Quadro Card.


http://www.anandtech.com/show/11102/nvidia-announces-quadro-gp100


Read this article on why Nvidia released a GP100 despite having P6000

I will agree that it would be a little odd to release a GP100 Quadro that doesn't fully beat the GP102 at everything (slightly less single precision) unless it really did have some sort of architecture tweak. So I suppose these new 102 dies really don't have the double precision after all. I'd still like to compare the size of the compute only sections.

With that, this really is cheesy. This "Titan" is nothing more than an oversized mid range style die being sold at a ridiculous markup. At least the original Titans actually had an advantage to them, this thing is just a wallet stealer.

Edit: Actually, it looks like you're right about HBM size. With the way I am seeing HBM used, this should use less die space on the actual main controller die itself - so not counting the actual HBM stacks on the side of GP100, the amount of space on the main die for HBM usage should be less compared to a GDDR5/5X on GP102. So that also points do added double precision components on GP100 that GP102 does not have.

You can tell I'm just very irritated with this whole Titan trend.
Edited by Omicron - 4/8/17 at 7:33am
post #513 of 1039
@DarkWizzie Any Titan is a bad buy at full retail price. I've never heard of any reviewer claim a Titan was a good buy.
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post #514 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post

@DarkWizzie Any Titan is a bad buy at full retail price. I've never heard of any reviewer claim a Titan was a good buy.

That might be the most dumb thing I've heard this month.

   
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post #515 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post

@DarkWizzie Any Titan is a bad buy at full retail price. I've never heard of any reviewer claim a Titan was a good buy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

That might be the most dumb thing I've heard this month.

Why is that? DADDYDC650 is right. Nvidia Titan Xp is a joke on the value front. Honestly, it makes the 1080 Ti look like a bargain by comparison.

I'm sure that's exactly what Nvidia was going for... 1080 Ti for those that want crazy settings at a more "reasonable" price (I use that term loosely), and Titan Xp for those that want just a little bit extra. Either way, if Nvidia sells either card, they make a lot of money.


The negative side of this is that they just royally pissed off Titan X Pascal owners TWICE. Not only is the 1080 Ti faster than the old Titan X Pascal, but the new Titan Xp is also faster. Titan X Pascal owners now have the 3rd fastest GPU on the market, they paid $1200 for it, and it only took a few weeks for that to happen.

Titan X Pascal owners just got slapped in the face with a green fish.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 4/8/17 at 7:57am
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post #516 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

That might be the most dumb thing I've heard this month.
Just out of curiosity, why would you say "most dumb" instead of "dumbest"? Sry for the side track.
post #517 of 1039
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DADDYDC650 View Post

@DarkWizzie Any Titan is a bad buy at full retail price. I've never heard of any reviewer claim a Titan was a good buy.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

Why is that? DADDYDC650 is right. Nvidia Titan Xp is a joke on the value front. Honestly, it makes the 1080 Ti look like a bargain by comparison.

First let's just address the very obvious point about Titans not being good price/perf. Like... duh? I think literally every person in this entire thread knows that. Great. Does that nullify any of my points? No. It's not relevant. In fact I am insulted that somebody would bring up such an elementary point to the discussion as if everything I say comes crashing down once the simple truth is revealed to me.

If one is going to say that it's bad price/perf therefore bad buy then that's a problem. That is saying that anybody who gets Titan was making a poor decision. That's ignoring the fact that for some people the extra performance for a limited time (as with almost all tech, TOTL is temporary) is worth more than the extra price to get it. And that in turn depends on various factors... frugality, current financial situation, outlooks on the future, etc.

All of these things should be dead obvious to anyone. So why the heck are we talking about this? We shouldn't.

Then there's the 1 sentence response without any context as to which point he was directly discussing. I responded to many people, and to him, multiple times for different posts and points. A single tag and saying 'bad buy, never saw a reviewer say it's a good buy' is dumb. As if the true arbiter of what is or isn't a good buy is from a reviewer. I am sure there are reviewers who think Titans are bad price perf, but worth it to some people. In other words, both of his sentences fail.
 

If somebody makes a short statement like that with no context I've got no room for a charitable interpretation.

 

Quote:
The negative side of this is that they just royally pissed off Titan X Pascal owners TWICE. Not only is the 1080 Ti faster than the old Titan X Pascal, but the new Titan Xp is also faster. Titan X Pascal owners now have the 3rd fastest GPU on the market, they paid $1200 for it, and it only took a few weeks for that to happen.

Titan X Pascal owners just got slapped in the face with a green fish.

You're acting like it's a given that Titan XP owners were royally pissed off even once. That's a premise I don't accept. All I hear all day are people who are more value orientated complaining on behalf of silent XP owners about how it's an outrage. If people are as pissed off as you say the Titan line will cease to be a good moneymaker for them because their customers are outraged and will stop buying their Titan products. So it's not a problem for us and soon never a problem for them.

The reality is actually that the people buying the Titan XPs tend to be okay with what happens because this kind of thing has happened over and over. So it is a problem for you guys because the actual buyers are fine, but you guys are not. Titans will continue to sell and there will be new SKUs and new threads of people getting angry who don't own Titans.
 

I was half considering a Titan XP. Knowing what I know now, I don't think it would have affected my buying decision back then. Cards get faster with time at the same price. That's not shocking.

Could some Titan owners be annoyed? Yes. Pissed off? Not justified. But annoyed? Possibly. We're still humans and emotions sometimes happens because monkey brain (referring to evolution, not literally calling people as dumb as monkeys). But if somebody spends that much and didn't do the research... well... do it better next time.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by maltamonk View Post


Just out of curiosity, why would you say "most dumb" instead of "dumbest"? Sry for the side track.
I dunno. Is there a correct way to say it, is there a general consensus? I'm not sure, I feel like both ways of saying it is fine.

Edited by Darkwizzie - 4/8/17 at 8:26am
   
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Celapaleis (2013)
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post #518 of 1039
Am I the only one who thinks Nvidia's decisions make sense for us ? Because as you know that there is no competition in the market. So, monopoly rule the market as it wants until the competitor comes back right ?

If you don't want to pay 1200 bucks then you can choose 1080 Ti.. Its price 699 bucks with 3584 shader 11GB G5X memory..
post #519 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Pistol View Post

The negative side of this is that they just royally pissed off Titan X Pascal owners TWICE. Not only is the 1080 Ti faster than the old Titan X Pascal, but the new Titan Xp is also faster. Titan X Pascal owners now have the 3rd fastest GPU on the market, they paid $1200 for it, and it only took a few weeks for that to happen.
Picture it, Halloween 2013. Your choices are a $1000 Titan, or a $700 780--you pull the trigger on your Titan purchase, and nvidia drops the 780ti not even a month later, which is not only faster but cheaper than your Titan purchase.

What am I getting at here? Buying Titan cards late in their life cycle is asking for heartache, because nvidia releases new ones on an almost yearly basis. The key takeaways I have are:

- Buying a Titan card expecting it to be The Best Card for 18+ months is being willfully ignorant of how nvidia releases GPUs from 2013 to the moment you read this post.
- Your Titan X(P) is still in the top 5% for GPU performance, and it didn't suddenly catch fire and fly into the sun because a faster alternative came out a year later. There are endless smug posts from people who own 2013 Titans claiming their "OG Titan still performs great in games".
post #520 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwizzie View Post

First let's just address the very obvious point about Titans not being good price/perf. Like... duh? I think literally every person in this entire thread knows that. Great. Does that nullify any of my points? No. It's not relevant.


If one is going to say that it's bad price/perf therefore bad buy then that's a problem. That is saying that anybody who gets Titan was making a poor decision. That's ignoring the fact that for some people the extra performance for a limited time (as with almost all tech, TOTL is temporary) is worth more than the extra price to get it. And that in turn depends on various factors... frugality, current financial situation, outlooks on the future, etc.


All of these things should be dead obvious to anyone. So why the heck are we talking about this? We shouldn't.


Then there's the 1 sentence response without any context as to which point he was directly discussing. I responded to many people, and to him, multiple times for different posts and points. A single tag and saying 'bad buy, never saw a reviewer say it's a good buy' is dumb. As if the true arbiter of what is or isn't a good buy is from a reviewer. I am sure there are reviewers who think Titans are bad price perf, but worth it to some people. In other words, both of his sentences fail.

While I understand where you're coming from, I respectfully disagree. From even an economic standpoint, the Titan Xp does not make sense. It's the same GP102 chip as the both the Titan X Pascal and the 1080 Ti, it just has a few more cores enabled.

Most people would equate "good buy" with a value proposition. That's how the term is used. "Great card" is a given; the Titan Xp is the fastest consumer GPU on the market at this time. Period. No one is arguing that. However, what we are seeing is, again, a slap in the face from Nvidia. You've got a bunch of owners of the Titan X Pascal who knew they were buying a $1200 card that, at the time, was much faster than the GTX 1080. This is fine. In fact, I would even argue that the price premium over the 1080 wasn't that terrible at the time considering the performance increase.

Now, however, you've got a $700 1080 Ti, which is slightly faster than the old Titan X Pascal. This is fine, as it brings Titan X Pascal performance down to a more affordable price point. Good move Nvidia... except about a month later, Nvidia has now introduced a new Titan Xp, which is faster by 5-10%, but costs almost twice the price of the 1080 Ti. So, not only has Nvidia suddenly made the original Titan X Pascal the 3rd fastest card, but they have now released a product which makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE in their current lineup based on economic principals; the Titan Xp is a halo card for the sake of being a halo card. Nvidia is basically waiving the card in the face of all the people that bought the Titan X Pascal and saying "HEY GUISE!!! WE GOT SOMETHING FASTER!!! COME BUY IT YOU MONEY BAGS!!!"

It just doesn't make sense, from both a consumer and a business standpoint.




I will say this... if Nvidia had priced the Titan Xp @ $1000, I don't think so many people would be angry about it.
Edited by Mad Pistol - 4/8/17 at 8:32am
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