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[VC] NVIDIA launches TITAN Xp with 3840 CUDA cores (faster G5X) - Page 88

post #871 of 1039
Its "loosely" like leasing hardware vs buying it. wink.gif

But yeah, do as you please.
post #872 of 1039
Agree with RT here, easy peasy. Problem with high price top of the line cards is that punishing margin between original price and eventually sale price, IE your 290X (if you sold it). I'm out of the titan game since I sold my 2013 titan for $500 then bought a 970 for $300 for the same performance haha. In any event, I love these giant cards, and wish I could justify buying one but alas, wedding expenses pile up biggrin.gif
post #873 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by gamervivek View Post

Depends on how big the 'small die' is, 980 was almost 400mm2 while 680 and 1080 are 300mm2 but on a newer process. 980 wasn't that much faster than 780Ti at launch and only later got much faster due to 780Ti dropping off in performance.

If Volta is on same process as Pascal, then repeating the 980 would still be pretty good for nvidia.

Volta is on tsmc 12nm process, which is the enhanced version of 16nm which is more dense. Probably u can reduced 25% die space from the enhanced version.

So assuming volta is 35-40% faster per core, a 3072 cores gv104 will be probably ~300mm sq in size on 12nm and could potentially beat the titan xp by 10-15%. A 2560 cut down version could match it.
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post #874 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by guttheslayer View Post

Volta is on tsmc 12nm process, which is the enhanced version of 16nm which is more dense. Probably u can reduced 25% die space from the enhanced version.

So assuming volta is 35-40% faster per core, a 3072 cores gv104 will be probably ~300mm sq in size on 12nm and could potentially beat the titan xp by 10-15%. A 2560 cut down version could match it.

I think the problem with GTX1080 is BW. I noticed that overclocking core you do not get much performance scaling. GPU needs 450 GB/s+. Nvidia can't do any more compression.
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post #875 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZealotKi11er View Post

I think the problem with GTX1080 is BW. I noticed that overclocking core you do not get much performance scaling. GPU needs 450 GB/s+. Nvidia can't do any more compression.

3072 can consist of 6 gpc that is similar configuration as titan x Maxwell.

That make each gpc tied to 64 bits (16 rop) controller for a total bus width of 384 bits. With even newer 12gbps g5x it can provide ample bandwidth up to 576 gb/s (not including OC). More than sufficient for smth 10-15% faster than titan xp.
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post #876 of 1039

Found this info:https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6662-tsmc-talks-about-22nm-12nm-7nm-euv.html?s=279f0f6080745414ce6a74a8dc72c31e

 

"12nm FFC offers a 10% performance gain or a 25% power reduction. 12nm also offers a 20% area reduction with 6T Libraries versus 7.5T or 9T."

 

Might mean 30% on process, 10% better than I thought! So guttheslayer you might be right, even on current games it might be roughly same speed. Hopefully they will at least match AMD's architectural improvements, I am becoming very optimistic :D 

 

EDIT: "" added.


Edited by G woodlogger - 4/18/17 at 7:27am
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post #877 of 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by G woodlogger View Post

Found this info:https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6662-tsmc-talks-about-22nm-12nm-7nm-euv.html?s=279f0f6080745414ce6a74a8dc72c31e

12nm FFC offers a 10% performance gain or a 25% power reduction. 12nm also offers a 20% area reduction with 6T Libraries versus 7.5T or 9T.

Might mean 30% on process, 10% better than I thought! So guttheslayer you might be right, even on current games it might be roughly same speed. Hopefully they will at least match AMD's architectural improvements, I am becoming very optimistic biggrin.gif


I have put up quite alot of thinking in anticipating what will the next GV104 bring to the table. All based on analyzing previous generation to generation leap and changes. Based on what you said, 10% performance will directly go to clock speed. Meaning we will be seeing Max OCed of 2.3-2.4 GHz on the new chip. That is the assumption.

Let us look at PER CORE improvement for the past 2 architecture leap.


Kepler -> Maxwell: +35% (Improved architecture, same process node)
Maxwell -> Pascal: +40% (Improved process node, same architecture)
Pascal -> Volta: ~ +35-40% (Both)


I think the prediction is rather underwhelming. When you can see 35-40% per core performance increased with just one of the factor changed. I dont see why Volta will not be 35% leap when you have both factor IMPROVED. In fact I expect more than that. Of cos with ACE included, DX 12 titles could improved as much as 50% per core. Who knows? But as of now, I tend to stay at the modest 40%.

Now the 3072 cores isnt some random number I conjured. Going for the past 3 iteration of GXX04 chip, the count core increase has rather been consistent


GK104 -> GM204 -> GP104 -> GV104

1536 -> 2048 -> 2560 -> ????


Predicting the next logical core count isnt something that hard. Of course that is assuming the consistency is maintained, then it will be logical to have a 3072 cores GV104.


Now whether a 3072 cores chip is feasible or not, we will have to look at its anticipated die size and things will start to make sense.


A 3072 cores will be 75% the die size of a 3840 cores GP102. Combining that with a 20% space reduction from 16 -> 12nm, we can easily predict the new GV104 to be only 60% as large, or 283mm sq. Of cos that is ignoring all the new goodies that comes with the new architecture (ACE compute unit anyone?). So a more realistic GV104 die size will be anything from 300-320mm sq. That put it right in the comfortable range of GXX04 chip size.


Now if we are taking 35%-40% per core improvement into account, 10% will comes from process node or faster clock, ~25% will comes from IPC.


That will mean the hypothetical 512 cores GPC performance of Volta will match the GPC of Pascal (at 640).


A 6 GPC GV104 will match a 6 GPC GP102 clock for clock, but the former will edge out thanks to 10% faster clock (from 12nm). That means the new GV104 GTX 1180 will be 10-15% faster than Titan XP at stock. However once OCed the margin start to close in (sound familar? Hint: GTX 1080 vs TXM).


Each GPC of Volta is likely to be fed with a 64-bits controller using a even faster G5X at 12gpbs (This chip does exist, you can refer it from Micron G5X page). Giving it a total of 576 GB/s worth of memory Bandwidth. Is it enough? Yes it is, even without any memory compression enhancement from Pascal to Volta. I will be estimating that Volta will offer >100% perf per watt over Pascal (as usual), so its likely a 150-170W TDP GPU as well.


There you have it, a new 12nm small die chip that is 10-15% faster than TXP (Rmb GTX 980 vs. Titan Black?) and it is as small as GP104. Nvidia will start to charge $599 for this chip (once again) since it need to maintain its profit margin when transiting from 16nm to 12nm node.


I can predict JHH exclaiming: "Can you believe it? It is faster than a $1200 Titan XP at half the price!"









TLDR: I am not expecting a BIG LEAP in performance in the next GTX 1180 card. Neither is it cheap or HBM based if AMD still fails to catch up.
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post #878 of 1039

The article quoted TMSC closed meting, I just forgot to put the quote in. So 30% from process that, should not cost that much more, as it is just an optimization of 16nm, not much new equipment required. The CHOSE to call it an new process, but that's pushing it. Volta architecture should give 20% in old games but quite a bit more in new games. I think they should rather reduce chip size to fit price level, as die size are too nerdy for most people, they will just notice name and price. Price should not really be that much higher, but of cause it might be :mad:.

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post #879 of 1039
GeForce 20 possibly arriving in a couple of months? Xp owners best not be too salty.
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post #880 of 1039
Not sure if 12nm FF is that fast,


but yeah 300-320mm chip. Not that hard to produce and release early. If yield are prematurely good.
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