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Need help, MSI B350M Mortar or Gigabyte GA-AB350M-Gaming 3 - Page 2

post #11 of 20
im on bios 1.2, make sure game boost is off / disabled, now go to the OC settings menu, top option (I forget what its called now) change from standard to expert, now you can change all other settings, CPU speed, voltages, memory etc.
post #12 of 20
So, what did you buy? I want board for R5 1600. Have same headache about these 2 motherboards.
post #13 of 20
Thread Starter 
Going with the msi for now becuz of this .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaie280672 View Post

I can tell you now, regardless of USB ports etc, I have both boards, and out of the 2, the Gigabyte is going back, given me nothing but trouble and still no bios updates, the F3c beta bios update that Gigabyte gave me, either buggered my ram or the board, lost the option for XMP profiles in the bios, even back flashing didnt fix, RMA'd the ram, and got that replaced, the motherboard is going back too, ive had enough of it.

As for the MSI, way more features in the bios compared to the Gigabyte board, load line calibration for instance is just one of them, debug LED's, im over the moon with this board, they would have to come out with something pretty mind blowing for me to get rid of this board, im still testing on it at the moment, but so far I have my R7 1700 upto 3.9ghz, 1.36v, and im running a new replacement set of G.skill Trident Z RGB 3200mhz ram on it at the moment at 2933mhz, not shot for the full 3200mhz yet, but it will come during testing, other system specs are 3 x samsung evo 250gb 840's in RAID0, Creative Sounblaster Z modified, Sapphire RX480 Boost+ 8gb GFX Card, 1000w Ledtek Platinum PSU, and a custom water loop.
post #14 of 20
kind of undertaking it but, Im on the exact same spot here...
I was sure about the gaming 3, mainly because the dual bios, Im really considering the msi now...
but it seems that "the comunity" of msi is not as large as for the 350m G3...

Do you know if there is forum's topic dedicated for the msi?
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post #15 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike View Post

kind of undertaking it but, Im on the exact same spot here...
I was sure about the gaming 3, mainly because the dual bios, Im really considering the msi now...
but it seems that "the comunity" of msi is not as large as for the 350m G3...

Do you know if there is forum's topic dedicated for the msi?

It should be obvious but probably deserves stating anyway: if the GB 350m G3 is a larger community then there are a lot more voices to express frustration during the frustrating time during any new tech roll-out shaking out BIOS and processor microcode updates.

That said: the AB350M Gaming 3 is up to BIOS F5 now, AGESA 1006 fully implemented. Lots more people getting supported memory to work and even unsupported memory to work better. Now that I understand how the CPU VCore reading works I'm able to settle on 3.85Gig, 24/7 overclock at 1.36volts under load (Prime95 small FFT's). Realistically, that's about the best anyone could expect to do with an 8core/16thread Ryzen on a 4 phase VRM.

I'm not trying to say all is peaches and cream here: the VCore measurement point (at the VRM output) is crazy, it doesn't have LLC (and could use it, I think) and the location of the second PCIe x 16/4 slot is bad cause you can't use it to cross-fire unless you put it in an ATX case and then...what's the point of mATX again??

Dunno what problems MSI is experiencing (they doubtless are): find out what BIOS rev they're on, if AGESA 1006 is rolled in FULLY with all the memory timings AMD opened up exposed for you to fiddle with. I seriously doubt anybody's mATX voltage phase control is any better than Gigabytes for their mATX boards, just different so there will be haters either way. And whichever you go with ignore the motherboard's 'approved' memory list but check AMD's and buy from it for maximum compatibility.

And lastly: just like the AB350M Gaming 3 this B350M Mortar is not a 'top-tier' board for MSI and will probably be equally low in getting attention from their development team. I think this has been a common problem across all the mATX boards: the engineering team pays attention first to their expensive X370 monsters like the CH6, Taichi, Aorus K7, etc. Then translates what they learn to the lower tier premiums before, finally, to the lowly little mATX boards that honestly have so very little overclocking headroom anyway.
Edited by buddywh - 6/25/17 at 4:09pm
post #16 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh View Post

It should be obvious but probably deserves stating anyway: if the GB 350m G3 is a larger community then there are a lot more voices to express frustration during the frustrating time during any new tech roll-out shaking out BIOS and processor microcode updates.

That said: the AB350M Gaming 3 is up to BIOS F5 now, AGESA 1006 fully implemented. Lots more people getting supported memory to work and even unsupported memory to work better. Now that I understand how the CPU VCore reading works I'm able to settle on 3.85Gig, 24/7 overclock at 1.36volts under load (Prime95 small FFT's). Realistically, that's about the best anyone could expect to do with an 8core/16thread Ryzen on a 4 phase VRM.

I'm not trying to say all is peaches and cream here: the VCore measurement point (at the VRM output) is crazy, it doesn't have LLC (and could use it, I think) and the location of the second PCIe x 16/4 slot is bad cause you can't use it to cross-fire unless you put it in an ATX case and then...what's the point of mATX again??

Dunno what problems MSI is experiencing (they doubtless are): find out what BIOS rev they're on, if AGESA 1006 is rolled in FULLY with all the memory timings AMD opened up exposed for you to fiddle with. I seriously doubt anybody's mATX voltage phase control is any better than Gigabytes for their mATX boards, just different so there will be haters either way. And whichever you go with ignore the motherboard's 'approved' memory list but check AMD's and buy from it for maximum compatibility.

And lastly: just like the AB350M Gaming 3 this B350M Mortar is not a 'top-tier' board for MSI and will probably be equally low in getting attention from their development team. I think this has been a common problem across all the mATX boards: the engineering team pays attention first to their expensive X370 monsters like the CH6, Taichi, Aorus K7, etc. Then translates what they learn to the lower tier premiums before, finally, to the lowly little mATX boards that honestly have so very little overclocking headroom anyway.

thanks mate for the answer, probably I will buy this board and wait for some high end mATX...
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post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike View Post

thanks mate for the answer, probably I will buy this board and wait for some high end mATX...

Wish you luck with this. But I for one am not holding out hope there will ever be a high-end AM4 mATX. At least nothing high end in the sense of what we see in Intel mATX boards; feature-rich with 8+phase VRM's and good heatsinking on the FETs, complete overclocking control in the BIOS including VRM phase control/LLC. I'm not sure why but motherboard mfr's seem to have abandoned this for AMD starting back on the AM3/+ days. They even went backwards by end-of-lifeing some fairly good ones as FM2 came out.
Edited by buddywh - 6/26/17 at 3:41pm
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh View Post

Wish you luck with this. But I for one am not holding out hope there will ever be a high-end AM4 mATX. At least nothing high end in the sense of what we see in Intel mATX boards; feature-rich with 8+phase VRM's and good heatsinking on the FETs, complete overclocking control in the BIOS including VRM phase control/LLC. I'm not sure why but motherboard mfr's seem to have abandoned this for AMD starting back on the AM3/+ days. They even went backwards by end-of-lifeing some fairly good ones as FM2 came out.

actually, this is exactly what i was waiting for...
My hope was in the fact that the RYzen is selling really well...but indeed the motherboards for AMD are behind the ones for Intel...
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post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddywh View Post

Now that I understand how the CPU VCore reading works I'm able to settle on 3.85Gig, 24/7 overclock at 1.36volts under load (Prime95 small FFT's).

.

Ok, what you mean by that? What is the problem with the vcore reading?
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post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky Strike View Post

Ok, what you mean by that? What is the problem with the vcore reading?

The VCore read-out is apparently being measured at the output of the VRM's. The effect of that is you never see Vdroop in the voltage readout. So, for instance, if VCore reads 1.452 volts (average) at idle it will read 1.452 volts even in the middle of a Prime95 stress test, which would be incredible performance for most any VRM even if it has LLC. I was able to determine this by making measurements with a digital multimeter on the leads of the output filter caps of the VRM.

In reality what happens is the 1.452 volts at idle is really about 1.416 volts at the core, as reported by the CPU telemetry (even at idle there's some droop) and in the middle of a prime 95 stress run it's about 1.36 volts. This was when overclocking to 3.85G.

The way I found to read an accurate core voltage is with HWInfo64 since it reports the CPU Telemetry data (SVI2 TFN). But the telemetry isn't correct if the BIOS is doing the overclocking and adjusting the core voltages. So set BIOS to defaults for overclocking and use RyzenMaster to adjust overclock settings to determine what VCore works to give decent SVI2 TFN voltages, both idle and at load, at the overclock you want. Then go back in to BIOS, set that overclock and adjust the core offset to achieve that Vcore reading with a BIOS overclock. Confirm that you got it right by comparing VRM temps and CPU temps while loaded with an identical stress test.

There are a couple things that limit how far I could go with an overclock: If I keep pumping up the voltage and try to get a 4G overclock (depends on CPU) the VRM will overheat (about 105C) and start throttling when used heavily. Also, the idle voltage (when Vdroop is a lot less) may peak above 1.45 (most agree that's something to avoid). That happened to me at 3.9G; reason being this little 4 phase VRM just can't put out enough clean power to keep it stable so you have to pump it up more. It also overheated so quickly I knew this was gonna shorten board life pretty drastically so I settled on 3.85g is my optimal 24/7 OC, but use 3.825 for added margin. That's why LLC may, or may not, be helpful for this board: it COULD help by offering a lower voltage at idle, but the VRM is so maxed out at 3.85G I'm not sure it's worth the bother.

Hope this helps...
Edited by buddywh - 6/29/17 at 2:06pm
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